The drew70 blog

Greetings TMF’ers.  I know it’s been a while but rest assured, this blog is not done.  I’m still keeping an eye on the TMF from time to time for anything of interest.  But truth be told, things have settled down there for the most part.  Jeff seems to have isolated himself.  Bella’s posts while still obnoxiously smug and self-important are few and far between.  Crystal Light took a long hiatus that from my viewpoint seems to have done her a world of good.  She’s no longer clamoring for attention and seems to be a lot more mature.  Good on you, Joana.  Seriously.

Okay, let’s get to it, shall we?  Two controversial threads were closed way prematurely, in fact proactively.  I’ve said it before and I still maintain that there is seldom if ever a reason to close a thread.  Usually it’s the result of an argument getting heated to the point where even regular members decide that “surely I can’t be faulted for flaming this asshole!  Anybody can see he DESERVES it!”  Once that happens, the thread then becomes a free-for-all.  Then Jeff or Myriads comes along and closes it.

Now as far as admins go, Myriads is the best I’ve seen.  His demeanor and temperament are consistently cool and even.  He has a strong sense of fairness and he is generally reluctant to break out his administrative power tools.  These are rare and admirable qualities to find in forum admins.  Still, there are a few points of protocol in which I radically disagree with Myriads, and this policy of closing threads is high on the list.

Consider these recent examples involving Casey Anthony on the celebrity tickling wish list.  This just days after she was acquitted of the murder of her little girl.  Most agree the acquittal was a travesty of justice and I’m inclined to agree.  The first was titled I'm prepared to be flamed to death, but I would definitely tickle Casey Anthony.

Merkle’s Boner
Mr. Wiggly doesn't care what she did or is accused of doing or what she got away with. Mr. Wiggly sees a good looking woman (and Casey Anthony is a very good looking woman) and wants her to be tickled.

Just sayin'

Leaving aside for the moment the gross lack of maturity in referring to one’s own member as “Mr. Wiggly” (Seriously dude, what are you, like 12?), there’s nothing about the post that violates forum protocol.  Sure, it’s controversial, but the forum is supposedly adults only.

Aimee
Myraids, Jeff...someone. Please. Delete this thread now

You can practically hear the panic in her voice.  “Please!  For the love of God, CLOSE this misbegotten thread before the unthinkable happens!”  I usually like what Aimee has to say and she’s definitely a looker.  Here’s her current sig picture:

Aimee, you’re a total sweetheart, but seriously – if you object to a thread, just leave it alone and move on to another.

porcelaindoll2
This 100% This thread hasn't even gotten started yet and I see an instant shutdown.

Again, more panic.  And over what?  Seriously, what’s the worst that could happen?  People might share ideas and opinions with a little more heat than usual?  Doesn’t it seem strange that in this day and age of free speech and freedom of press that rational grown adults could in all seriousness say, “This is a topic that must be suppressed.”  That kind of tyranny is expected under oppressive third world despotism, but not in a community of supposedly progressive and civilized adults.

There was a small handful of subsequent comments, but before a single page could be completed, the thread was closed with this remark.

Myriads
Not in the mood for this today. Don't need the annoyance, or the flame bait. Topic closed.

Myriads

“I refuse to allow this topic to be discussed!”  Amin and Stroessner, move over.  There’s a new despot in town.

If two people in the thread openly advocated its closure, you can be sure that at least ten others pounded Myriads with PM’s demanding the same.  I suppose one could argue that the squeakiest wheels get the grease, but this goes deeper.

Neither Aimee (I still think of her as “Mammers”) nor Porcelain Doll are new to the forum.  And being confirmed attractive women you can bet they’ve been hit on in every lewd manner conceivable.  They’ve already seen the worst behavior the TMF has to offer, probably a dozen fold.  So I find it highly doubtful that they were worried about offensive behavior.

I think it’s more of a case of grabbing the opportunity for some quick notoriety. Closed threads are somewhat of a rarity and being in one (especially one closed so early in the game) gives a member sort of a 15 min of fame, particularly if they accurately predict it’s closure.

Which brings us to an important point.  If thread-closing had not already been an established TMF policy, then it would not have even occurred to these two fine ladies (not to mention the countless sissies who PM’ed Myriads) to even consider requesting a closure.

Myriads says he’s “not in the mood.”  Well buddy, this is what you ask for when you put these questionable policies in motion.  If you’d just enforce the Golden Rule, you wouldn’t have every crybaby on the forum whimpering for threads to be closed.  Think about it.  What reason is there to close a thread?  There are already posted rules of conduct.  It’s stated that offenders will be punished, and ultimately banned if they continue.  If these rules are enforced, then why would it ever be necessary to close a thread?

One can only conclude that said rules are not being enforced.  Which brings us to the big question that titles this blog entry.  Myriads, where is your staff?

The next thread was started a few hours later and titled Why has Casey Anthony tickling fantasy discussion here been suppressed?

Fat Bastard
With all the “alternative lifestyle” discussions that go on here, why is it that this particular topic has been squashed?

Personally, over the past couple of years, the thought of extracting a right proper confession out of this attractive yet obvious sociopath has crossed my mind more than once.

If you’re incapable of participating in such a RP-esque discussion without blatant GR violations, then stay out of it!

And Myriads, I fully sympathize with your desire not to have to referee the ramped immaturity around here, but this subject is a current event and as such will inevitably invoke a desire for discussion.

To help reduce the effort, may I suggest a short leash with appropriately administered bans for indiscriminate violators? Perhaps a “thinning of the herd” around here would actually benefit the overall atmosphere.

Props to Fat Bastard for starting this second thread and asking the questions that really needed to be asked.  How is this fantasy topic any different from other celebrity fantasy?  Since when are we selective as to which celebrities are approved for fantasy wish fulfillment? 

Myriads’ flimsy excuse for closing the first thread was that it was “flame bait.”  But there was not one single flame in response to that thread.  Even if the first thread was merely to attract flames (a completely unsupportable allegation), the same certainly can’t be said about Fat Bastard’s thread, which Myriads also closed. 

Korastus
The thread was rightfully closed. It's repugnant and unnecessary. It would be unwise to press the issue.

My God, what a pussy.  Is it that difficult to simply ignore the thread and move on to the hundreds of pages of other threads in Tickling Discussion?  And for the record, it’s always wise to question authority.

Wolf
Because it was obvious flame-bait, posted for no other reason than to rile people up worse than Nancy Grace on meth?

How do you know that, you arrogant self-important ass kisser?  Who died and made you decider of people’s motives?

Fat Bastard
If that’s you’re opinion, which is perfectly legitimate, then as I suggested, stay out of it!

I find plenty of threads here “repugnant & unnecessary”, that doesn’t mean they should be off limits.

Jericho716
Save this fantasy for your own bedroom. You're more than capable of coming up with other tickling fantasies.
If it's an obsession, you could start a forum of your own specifically for "Casey Anthony tickling fantasies".

Fat Bastard
Again, more personal judgments … how refreshing on a fetish forum.

Wolf
Perhaps…Some people value their own human decency over their fantasies?

Human decency is something everybody must decide for themselves, Shit-for-brains.  You don’t get to decide what’s universally decent.  If your inflated self-righteousness is offended, then go play in the Silly Forum. 

Fat Bastard
Careful Wolf, you’re almost starting to sound like the “closed minded” conservatives you enjoy railing on so often here.

Are you suggesting this level of fantasy is just too much for even the most “progressive” minded?

Wolf
Yeah, I am. The idea of a sociopath who gets away with killing her kid saddens and disgusts me to the point that I can't imagine anything even close to erotic in conjunction with that. The system worked as it is intended, of course. Doesn't mean it has to feel good. I think I can live with you thinking that's hypocritical in some weird way.

Your hypocrisy has nothing to do with liking the way the system worked.  What’s hypocritical is that as a liberal you tout yourself and your kind as progressive “live and let live” proponents.  You viciously scorn and condemn any and all talk that even slightly derides people expressing alternative sexual preferences, because that is oh so judgmental and narrow minded…until you come across something you personally find unpalatable.  Then out comes the robes and torches as you cast your self-righteous judgments of “human decency.”

That not only makes you a hypocrite, but an asshole as well. And not in a weird way at all.  Just pathetic.

Fat Bastard
That's all good, and as such, I suggest you simply stay out of the discussion. Or is it in this particular case that you feel censorship of thought to be appropriate.

The killing blow to which Wolf has no legitimate reply.  There’s simply no denying that censorship of thought is exactly what Wolf, Korastus, and a few others are proposing but they are loathe to admit it.  And like any cornered animal, Wolf desperately shifts to a strategy with which he’s more familiar and tries to make it political.

Wolf
"censorship of thought"?

Who knew you could be such a liberal (in this incarnation, anyway)?

But you're right, of course.

You shouldn't be ridiculed just because the majority finds your sexual urges repugnant. Don't ask, don't tell, right? You should be left alone to pursue your interests with other like minded people, who do not wish to be judged.

Stand strong. Fight persecution. Maybe you guys could form your own little group, and have your own little symbols and pins, like "alternative lifestyles" use rainbows or pink triangles.

Perhaps a feather.

Pinned to a soggy garbage bag.

Well, so much for that disastrous change in strategy.  Notice how his lame attacks just peter out.  Not with a bang, but a whimper.  I’ve seen many like Wolf.  They rely very heavily on sarcasm to do their arguing for them.  Sarcasm can certainly be an effective tool in arguments such as this one, but when its the only arrow left in the quiver it usually backfires miserably as we’ve just seen here. 

ticklemepls
because this is a high profile thing with a lot of opinions of this woman... STRONG opinions of this woman...

... its an automatic recipe for disaster and no such thread needs to exist at this point in time while emotions around this case are still running high...

Oh, so strong opinions make it okay to violate forum policy?  Strong opinions preclude moderators from actually doing their job and policing the forum?  You’re an idiot.

Fat Bastard
And what would you consider to be an appropriate “cooling off” period, Your Honor?

ticklemepls
i dont make that call...but common sense says in the middle of this mess not smart to start a thread about her-
you opened this one, asked a question, and getting responses- no need to get snappy and rude with people for ANSWERING you... just let it go...

Your so-called “common sense” suggests that this is a forum of children who not only can’t control their emotions, but can’t be held responsible for losing control.  Every TMF member who signs up can only do so by agreeing to control their emotions and stay within forum protocol.  Real common sense would be to understand that this also includes “this point in time while emotions around this case are still running high.”

Fat Bastard
So what you’re telling us is that you fall into the category of not being capable of avoiding a thread in which you find “inappropriate & unnecessary”, and that’s justified because “of opinions of this woman... STRONG opinions of this woman”?

Just want to be clear on this …

ticklemepls
never said i couldn't .. and i never said i was one of them. i simply answered your question, now if you'd be so kind to take your asshole attitude and shove it up your butt we'll be good   thanks k bye.

Well one thing is clear, honey.  You proved you are one of those people who can’t control their emotions, whether you said so or not. 

Good money says this chick never even got a slap on the wrist for this blatant GR violation.

Myriads
The reason the [first] thread was closed was stated in my closing post.

Given the general atmosphere around the topic, the addition of the closed thread was just in my eyes an obvious attempt to create a flame thread.

The OP gave a clear sign that they expected flame responses based on their selected thread title.

Sorry Myriads, but that’s flawed reasoning and you know it.  We’ve both seen countless examples when somebody posts an opinion that they suspect might be unpopular, they preface it with “I know I’ll probably get flamed for this.”  In fact, I’ve seen this practice actually deter flames, because nobody likes to be anticipated.

You simply can’t with any legitimacy whatsoever twist that to an invitation to flame.

Myriads
I and my staff had no desire to moderate the thread after it turned into the expected flame fest, so it was pre-emptivly closed before the party started.

I don’t blame you for having no desire to moderate that thread.  But that comes with the territory for which you willingly volunteered.  It’s appallingly lazy and irresponsible for you simply decide this thread or that thread isn’t worth the bother. 

Myriads
Starting a new thread to question a moderation action is a violation in itself, as it's considered re-opening the closed topic. And it can lead to bans. Don't do it. If you question a moderation call PM myself or the moderator that took the action and request clarification.

Ah, I see you are still arbitrarily adding new rules on the spot to justify your admittedly mood-inspired exercises of administrative muscle.  Some things never change, I guess.  You might want to consider actually posting this new rule in the Our Rules sub-forum of the Welcome To the TMF section, although I hope you’ll forgive me if I don’t hold my breath waiting for that to happen.

What can I say.  I post my first blog entry in nine months and a day later it’s all over the TMF.  Who knew this would happen?  Of course I’m talking about Friday’s entry: Kered, Have You Lost Your Mind?  Somehow, within a day it got back to him and he started two threads about it on the TMF.

First, let me retract two things I said in error.  They have little to no bearing on the gist of yesterday’s story, but for the sake of accuracy let me apologize for erring on Kered’s age.  He’s 53, same as me.  Also it seems that the TMF Idol entry I ascribed to kered was actually from somebody else.  I arrived late to the show while it was playing and I thought I gleaned from the chatroom that it was kered’s entry.  Again, my sincerest apologies for the misinformation.  I’ve edited Friday’s blog entry to correct it.

So let’s talk about kered’s post in the TMF called To all the TMF.  Interesting title.  Either he’s soliciting the entire TMF population for support, or he thinks this blog is read by them all.

kered
I am posting this here in response to a blog entry where I can't defend myself. I thought it only fair since the other person supposedly cannot comment here. Fair is fair, after all.

It sure is.  That’s why this blog has a comments section that is completely unmoderated and unfiltered.  Kered, you are free to respond to any of these comments, or offer comments of your own.  You didn’t have to post a thread (much less two) on the TMF, although I believe I owe you considerable thanks for having done so.

kered
I just had a real good laugh. Yesterday I was shown a link from my photobucket account to none other than drew70's photobucket account in which there were two photos and one video of my newly painted bathroom wall.

You lost me with the link business, but the rest is true.  One photo is simply a cropped version of the larger one with the black border and stupid caption.  While writing the blog, I tried to simply link to the picture in your PhotoBucket account the way your signature does; but for some reason it wouldn’t work.  I confess I’m not a CCIE and my internet understanding is limited.  So instead I uploaded the picture to my own PhotoBucket account and was able to link to it there.  The video was attached to your thread and had to be downloaded anyway, so I uploaded it to my PhotoBucket account as well.

kered
As those of you who have been following this know BrightEyes and I were having a little fun with me making light of some Hello Kitty decorations in hers.  So I stupidly printed out four pics of pretty TMF ladies and hung them above my toilet as a joke and posted them here and in Facebook. Perhaps a poor joke but humor was the intent.

I might be able to buy that “humor was the intent” bit if you had simply Photoshopped a picture of your bathroom to insert the four women’s pictures, like BrightEyes and Venray suspected.  The fact that you went to the trouble to print them out, mount them in frames, and actually hang them in your bathroom?   That’s an awful long way to go for a “poor joke.” About the only thing you’ve said with which I agree was that it was a stupid thing to do.  I see you’ve taken it down now, but at the time you posted this and well after, the picture was still in your signature.  Makes me question whether you truly realize how stupid it was or just feigning humility.

kered
Now back to the link. I followed it to drew's account and of course saw my pics there which is no big deal. Yet under one of them was tagged the comment by drew about me trying to "garner favors from women half my age".

Which doesn’t necessarily mean sexual favors, though that might be at the top of list of most people’s suspicions.  Could that possibly be because all four of them were young women, two of whom were quite attractive? 

kered
So I left him a little note. He seems to still be angry about not having his own way in the forums and his subsequent banning from the forums. Of course he knew I had visited his photo album. So now the fun begins.

Your way off, kered.  The only thing for which I use PhotoBucket is to throw pictures up there and link to them from a forum or this blog.  I don’t look to see if anybody else has visited, and until today I wasn’t even aware that people could leave comments.  If you hadn’t mentioned it on the TMF, I can almost guarantee that I never would have seen your “note.”

But you did mention it, and I became curious, so I went and looked.  Here is the note verbatum:

kered (from his Facebook account to my PhotoBucket)
Not really drew. I know my own worth and have never seen these girls as anything but friends.I know I'm too old for what your mind is thinking. But we both know that comment was a small attempt to make you feel justified in your own mind. You wouldn't have given these pics a second glance if her picture were not on my wall.

Gotta jump in here.  Wrong again.  Hanging four framed pictures of women you find attractive above your toilet was bizarre enough to catch anybody’s attention, even mine.  The fact that you included CLIT in there only suggested to me that you need a new optical prescription.

kered (from his Facebook to my PhotoBucket)
It's still eats at you doesn't it. She bested you, drew. She beat you at your own game and you couldn't let it go. That is the only thing she did. She stood up to you and bettered you.

Really?  When did that happen?  It’s news to me.  What I remember is that every time I made a comment to her or about her, Venray would tattle and the white knights would ride in to her defense with Jeff leading the pack.  I got the idea they all considered her to be too emotionally fragile to deal with me by herself.  I was convinced this feigned fragility was just an act—a tool by which she would manipulate people.  I’ve yet to be unconvinced.

There was one rare instance in which for some reason I was allowed to converse with her without moderation intervention. That was when she and Viper tried to convince everybody that I was Cid.

kered (from his Facebook to my PhotoBucket)
I don't know what you planned to do with these pictures other than stare at them in anger, but all have been notified.

I don’t plan on hanging them in my bathroom, that’s for certain.  To bad they weren’t notified of YOUR plans before you carried out your hare-brained prank.

You know…I’ve been accused of being excessively mean-spirited, cruel, troll….you name it.  Nothing I’ve ever said or done adds up to the disrespect you’ve shown these four women.  You put their pictures in your bathroom above the toilet!  Then showed it to everybody!  That’s like one step away from wiping your ass with them. 

You actually think it made me angry to see CLIT there??  She’s the only one who fits into the scene.  She fully deserved to have her picture there.  And the way Brighteyes has been carrying on lately, she almost deserves it too.  But Angel77 and Annie Hall??!  What the hell did THEY ever do to deserve a toilet-ring side seat of you dropping your morning load?  Seriously, that is probably the most disgusting, sickening stunt I’ve ever seen on the TMF. 

I honestly don’t see how you can stand to show your face at the TMF after that.

kered
Knowing he got caught he went to some blog of his and began truthfully enough that we never had a problem with each other. And that's true. We got along for a while. But that's about it.

I would have taken a bullet for you, kered.  Don’t think I didn’t notice that you kept quiet during my Kangaroo Court trial.  It would have been nice if you had stood up in my defense, but I was just grateful that you didn’t pick up a stone yourself like some others did.  Because of this I deliberately left you alone when I started calling out the assholes of the TMF.

But ultimately, you did pick up a rather large stone and hurl it my way.  Maybe you don’t recall so let me refresh your memory.

That’s the point where our friendship ended, at least as far as I’m concerned.  For you, who knows?  Probably the first time I highlighted CLIT’s early examples of attention whoring.

kered
He then asked if I lost my mind and began to spin this whole bathroom picture thing with as many veiled and unveiled insults to me as he could fit in.

“Veiled insults.”  A TMF cliché if ever there was one.  And face it, man.  This stupid stunt of yours spun itself with no help from me.

kered
So let me clear up a few things. Drew, you and I are the same age of 53. I am a member here and you are not. I did nothing to get you banned. You did that yourself.

No, I did not ban myself.  MTP Jeff banned me, and he doesn’t deny it.  If you don’t believe me, ask him.

kered
I don't have puppet accounts here, you have several. We both belong to other tickling websites where you have publicly stated that you could care less about the TMF, yet here you are coming back repeatedly.

Perhaps sometimes I do care about the forum more than I’d like to admit.  Then again, it took eight months for me to summon enough interest to post another blog entry since my last one.  What keeps me coming back?  I suppose there are a number of answers but chief in my mind is that there are still people there who appreciate what I do.  They read what I say and they think, “God, I’m glad SOMEBODY said that!”

kered
You are not a member of a clique and neither am I. I am not out for accolades or admiration, nor am I looking for any sexual interaction from women half our age. I have never stalked or intentionally started trouble here but I have fought back. You have stalked people here which is one of the major factors in your being banned. And why in the world did you mention Slacker? How did he get into this?

You are definitely a clique member, kered.  When you pulled that stunt with your bathroom, I agree that not even you would expect to get laid as a result.  But you’re kidding nobody by denying you did it for their attention, affection, whatever you could get. 

I mentioned Slacker because like you, he too used to be a pretty cool guy BC  (Before Clique).  Like you, he’s abandoned dignity and self-sufficiency in favor of The Clique.  You two have a lot in common.  You should get to know one another.

kered
So we come now to my denigration in your blog where I have now become a sixty year old pervert who can't wait to pee in front of some pictures.

Hey, all I said was that you were older than me.  I never mentioned any age more specific than that.  I already admitted that was a mistake and corrected it. 

Even with the age wrong, the fact that you put pictures of four girls on the wall right above your toilet certainly supports the rest…

Venray
Sigh..he still hurts over being shunned by the community...I have nothing to do with him for some time and stay away from sites he frequents publicly....not worth wasting any time on him brother...

And yet, here you are, wasting time on me which is exactly what you do whenever my name gets mentioned on the TMF.  You’re a laughing stock, Venray.  People look at you the way they look at the department store security guard that always wanted to be a cop, but never had what it takes.  By the way, this time you forgot to mention how sad it is that it’s come to this…so very…sad.  But at least you remembered the sigh.

Fire Sprite
I remember Drew's actions up until he was banned, in particular the thread about his "friend" that was just at thinly veiled allegory to yours and Crystals friendship. Based on everything I've read from him when he posted I think what he hates most about being banned is that it means he doesn't get the last word.

Being banned isn’t so bad.  I still visit the TMF from time to time.  If an identity gets burned, I just make another one.  And truthfully, I never insisted on the last word, just that whatever I did say would remain intact.  On every other forum of which I’m a member, that would go without saying.  On the TMF however, that was evidently asking too much.

ticklingnemesis
I find it funny that he claims to not care about the TMF yet returns time and again for what, fodder for his blog. Why care about a site that banned you? I know he's on TT and probably is active over there, but his bitterness and anger towards TMF and many of its members is truly astounding. If you don't care about TMF, why waste time blogging about? Holding a grudge is a horrible waste of time and in the end, it will destroy you.

I’ve already answered this question.  In fact, I seem to recall an entire blog entry devoted to explaining to you where I was coming from and why I do the things I do.  Now you’re asking again as though we’d never had this discussion.  Well, my answer to you is the same as my answer was to CLIT when she asked…

drew70
I was unceremoniously kicked out of a forum that I'd invested a lot of time.  I scanned, cropped, and posted over two thousand tickling photos, just to share with the community.  I spent over a year working on that four-part song parody, "Makin People Laugh."  Hell, I even tried my hand at TK art.  Not for sale or profit.  All for the community to enjoy. 

Then one guy gets to decide I'm no longer a part of that community?  He has no legitimate grounds on which to ban me.  He can't even point to a single rules violation.  He just does it because he can.  He wants to impress his girlfriend-hopeful.  He then holds my trial after I'm banned and hence unable to offer any defense.

And I'm supposed to just accept that graciously and walk away?  I don't think so.

I don’t know why I even bother.  You always ask the same question and never hear the answer.

For those of you who don’t know him, he’s an older guy, same age as me.  He likes birds and he’s pretty good at Photoshop’s lasso tool.  When I was a TMF member, I always got along well with Kered, who derives his screen-name by spelling his real name backwards.

Like Slacker, Kered used to be cool and down-to-earth until The Clique came along and seduced him to the dark side.  Once he got two or three gatherings under his belt, his only interest in the TMF is socializing with The Clique.  I heard through the grapevine that CLIT was his “date” for NEST either last year or this year.  Look at any Clique thread, and Kered will show up sooner or later. 

Like the other TMF sugar daddies (Venray, Slacker, Jeff, etc) Kered has fallen hard for CLIT and the young girls in The Clique.  He has featured CLIT in several of his past signature pictures which display his considerable Photoshop skills.  ered’s most recent efforts to win favor and attention from CLIT and a few other women young enough to be his daughters took a rather bizarre turn to the seedy.  He printed and framed four photographs.  One of CLIT, one of Brighteyes, one of Angel77, and one of Annie Hall.  He put these four pictures on the wall of his bathroom just above the toilet! 

The message that this picture sends is pretty clear.   “Look, girls!  You are the lucky four whom I prefer to look at while my dick is in my hand!!  Aren’t you privileged?”

To make sure they get this message, he posts a thread about it:  News From the Crapper.  He got lots of responses.  Everybody was feeding his ego and giving him the high-fives he craves.  When Babbles sent Kered a PM that questioned his judgment in posting such a picture, Kered reacted rather immaturely.

Kered
Appearently there is a possiblity that I may have caused a bit of worry for someone on my commode wall. If this is true then I humbly apologize and the photo has been "fixed".

Angel77
LMAOOOO!!! For real? I hope the worry wasn't meaning me? I'm not worried and I thought the signature pic was funny!
Although, that is a fucking awesome pic that you have up now though!

Kered
Then my efforts weren't a total loss, and another self important meddler need not bother me again.

“My efforts weren’t a total loss.”  Which begs the question, what was your goal with this whole fiasco anyway?  What did you hope to "win?”  The only thing I can see is that you gave an appalling display of asskissing and schmoozing.

Babbles
Well, that explains why you weren't polite enough to reply.  I wouldn't have bothered except I was worried about the other person. Excuse me if you define that as "self important."
…Most people would appreciate a PM that didn't embarrass them but asked a valid question with concern for someone else, who I'd assumed you'd then have asked (privately....)

…Not making an issue of it in your thread...
That's what the PM function is for ---- Not putting people on the spot publicly. You should try it more often...

I met Babbles in person at NEST 2006.  She was very nice and I enjoyed our pleasant conversation.  On the forum, I think she does tend to get wordy in her responses, over utilizing emoticons and bold fonts.  I don’t often agree with her moral rants about abuse and consensuality, but in truth, I’ve been there myself, and don’t really have room to criticize her for it, even though I sometimes cringe when she flies off the handle.

What I like and respect about Babbles is that she doesn’t let herself get pushed around by The Clique.  Right or wrong, she has more than once stood her ground alone while the crowd hurls stones at her. She never sacrificed her own personal principles to gain or keep acceptance.  That’s something to which I can relate.

Kered
Well there ya go. Another thread successfully derailed and left to die on the tracks.
I've requested that this thread be locked or deleted. The fun has been taken out of it.

Awww, poor little baby Kered, didn’t like the way the game was going so he took has bat and ball and sulked off pouting.

If you ask me, this single act puts kered in contention with Mitchell for the not-so-coveted title of “Biggest Baby on the TMF.“

Of course, CLIT felt she didn’t milk quite enough attention from this topic, so she posts her own thread about it. 

Crystal Light
I would just like to say
That I am honored to be above Kered's toilet.

You're the best "troll" ever, Dirky.

Was she really honored by it?  Other than giving her lots of TMF attention which she craves the way a heroine addict craves Mexican Mud, what kind of honor can be derived from being showcased in somebody’s shitter?

Consider her subsequent comments in this same thread.

Crystal Light
I dislike you immensely.

Crystal Light
I'm never posting from an Amtrak Train again.

To me, this doesn’t sound much like somebody who is feeling “honored.”  It’s pretty obvious that when she claimed to be honored, that was her way of thumbing her nose at Babbles.

But of course, two threads on a ridiculous topic isn’t nearly enough for The Clique.  A third thread emerges, this time from kered, and you won’t believe the reason.  He wanted to prove that the pictures were really there on his bathroom wall and not just photoshopped to make it appear that way.

Some candid thoughts here.  I suspect Angel77 was not entirely comfortable to be featured in this picture.  If you take a close look at the JPEG image I got from kered’s signature, you’ll see he added some stuff to obscure Angel’s face.  This is probably what Kered did after his PM from Babbles.  Maybe Angel is okay with it.  But at the very least, it demonstrates that kered did this without even considering the possibility that those in the pictures might object.

Also, Annie Hall finally responded to the thread, clearly surprised.

Annie Hall
Well this is weird.

I doubt Annie Hall will make an issue out of it.  Not because she is part of The Clique.  She isn’t.  She is just more mature than most and will probably just shake her head along with the rest of us.

Kered, when you posted the jpeg image, we only suspected you were desperate and hard up for female attention.  Thanks for posting the video and removing all doubt.

Not to long ago, a thread was posted in the General Discussion sub forum of the TMF called Forced orgasms? Really? The thread is still there, but was heavily censored by MTP Jeff as all too many good threads are. I myself was present in that thread as EC4Me.

What is a forced orgasm? It’s basically strapping a woman down helpless and applying a vibrator to her privates until she involuntarily climaxes. Evidently this is done repeatedly. Once it’s said and done, the guy feels like a real man afterwards, having shown the woman who’s boss.

SteakDinnerBoom
I was just watching some preview clips that involved "forced" orgasms along with the tickling. Now, men I know can literally be forced to climax by massaging the prostate. And no, I don't know from experience...what are you, 12?? But can women really be "forced" to orgasm? Don't they have to be...you know...into it? Naturally if a girl consented to be tied up and tickled and knew in advance there was going to be "forced" orgasms along with it, there was never really any "force" going on except in the viewer's fantasy. Not to mention the possibility that the girl is (gasp) faking an orgasm! But truthfully, "forced" orgasms, ladies. What say ye? Fact or friction, er fiction?

Sasaxrah
It can happen. It's called the clitoris.

Goodieluver
Im sure if i was stroked off against my will, I would have no way of telling my junk to not shoot spermies out.

Its all about nerve stimulation

BrightEyes1082
It's hugely psychological for me, so if I'm creeped out by whoever's doing the tickling, there's no way they'd force me to orgasm. And holding a vibrator to me would do absolutely nothing. They've just never done anything for me. So I dunno, maybe some women can be made to orgasm against their will. I'm pretty sure I'm not one of them.

Of course there were more comments. Some people thought it possible while others insisted they could not be forced into it. Of course, the TMF’s biggest proponent of forced orgasm had to make an appearance to set us all straight with his vast knowledge and experience.

ViperGTS
First of all, it's not all about "nerve stimulation," although that is the biggest part of it. In my experience, a woman who is helpless and being sexually stimulated with the right kind of touch will usually lose her will to fight the sensations, and give into the climax, even if she really does NOT want to cum. One of the most willful girls I have ever known was bound tight and helpless and wanted to test this, quite some time ago - it took me nearly a hour and several different techniques, including vibrators, oral stimulation, and a few other things, but after about 55 minutes, amongst screaming protests and swearing, she came. Very hard, I might add.

This kid is without a doubt the most despicable punk on the TMF. Notice above the way he brags that he made a girl cum against her will. He’s proud that he forced an orgasm on an unwilling recipient. He equates masculinity with control and enforcement, the same way that rapists do.

ViperGTS
Another aspect is how many orgasms has she had already. After being given two or three orgasms via a vibrator, often the stimulation can become rather painful because of the increased sensitivity of the genitals. In my experience, most girls will become afraid of having a fourth or fifth orgasm on the vibrator because their nether-regions have become sore, and they're afraid that with the peaking pleasure the pain will also increase. Therefore, they don't want to cum again out of fear for the pain. Of course, nine times out of ten, that next "forced" orgasm has little to no pain involved at all, and afterwards, they slump in their bondage, eyes hazy and mind swimming.

So even though she is afraid and doesn’t want to continue because she is in pain, this asshole just plows right on because he thinks he knows what she "really wants."

I decided to enter the thread.

EC4me
Forced Orgasms. I must confess I find the concept most disturbing. I've heard all the arguments that support it. "It's not raaaape! *whimper* It's consensual!"

Bullshit, I say. The term "forced" precludes any consensus. If it were indeed consensual, then it's not forced. It's welcome. See the difference?

Can a woman be forced to orgasm? I guess anything's possible. But it begs the question: What kind of lowlife scum would want to force an orgasm on somebody?

And if your argument is to say, "But it IS welcome," my autoresponse is that if it is welcome, it isn't forced.

In short, Forced Orgasm = Rape, pure and simple. That is definitional fact, and not subject to debate.

ViperGTS
Except that your opinion is just an opinion, and not fact, and therefore, is open to debate, and contention.

EC4me
You're right, my opinion is just an opinion, same as yours. However, the facts I stated are indeed factual which means they are true regardless of any objections you might offer.

ViperGTS
Some women enjoy being forced, sexually. Being out of control, being told what to do, and being dominated. Therefore, a woman may enjoy being forced to have orgasms when she legitimately does not want to. The situation is what she may enjoy - being helpless, tied down, and given physical sensations she is in the mindset to attempt to refuse.

EC4me
If she refuses and you ignore that refusal, you are commiting rape, regardless of whether she likes it or not. If a man walks up to a woman on a dark street and rapes her, and she ends up enjoying the experience, that doesn't make what he did any less of a rape. If there's no consent, it's forced...rape, in other words. If there is consent, there's no force.

ViperGTS
I guess you could say that willingly being given an orgasm when you "don't want it" is consentual non-consentuality, but that's paty of the whole mindset.

EC4me
You are contradicting yourself. You can't be "willingly" being given an orgasm when you don't want it. You either want it or you don't. If you don't want it, that makes you unwilling. Your phrase, "consentual nonsonsentuality" underlines the irrationality of your argument and pretty much disqualifies it entirely.

She can pretend not to want sex, or act like she doesn't want it. But if she's given consent or approval, there is nothing forced. And if you assume consent is there in spite of struggling or objections, you run the risk of being charged for rape. Then try explaining to the judge, "No you don't understand! She WANTED me to do it! You gotta believe me!"

ViperGTS
The world isn't as black and white, cut-and-dry as you wish it were to be, EC4me. You're entitled to think what you like.

I simply believe that you are wrong.

To bad you can’t prove I’m wrong. Too bad you can’t demonstrate any error in what I said. You believe I’m wrong not because logic or reason tells you this. You simply believe I’m wrong because you’re unwilling to admit to yourself that you’re a scumbag who takes delight in controlling women and inflicting pain on them. You’re unwilling to treat women as equals and instead insist on putting them beneath you and subjugating them to your will.

Bohemianne
Of course, anything "too much" is too much. Becoming sore already is a sign of being over done. Occasional use of vibrator is fine, but too much of that can damage the female genitalia, seriously.

ViperGTS
I think there's a big difference between more than what the mind can handle and more than what the body can handle.

From my personal experience (which is rather limited), I've found that the mind tends to fall weak when the body has much left to give. Taking away the mind's ability to decide when enough is enough, and not going so far as to break the physical body's limits, is not an easy task, but can leave both the "lee" and "ler" in a wonderful state of bliss after the ropes and chains have been lifted and the cuddling commences.

I suspect Viper borrowed this text from a BDSM book or perhaps a post on another forum. Regardless, it reveals much about his philosophy. He’s evidently a believer in "taking away the mind’s ability to decide when enough is enough." Again, he’s clearly demonstrated his rapist mentality. Women don’t decide when they’ve had enough. Viper decides because he is the man.

EC4me
Without being candid, I can't help but raise an eyebrow at the need to use a vibrator to bring a woman to climax. Personally, I say leave the toys for the children and use your own body parts and God forbid, maybe a little imagination.

I look at forced orgasm as being kind of like forcing a date in which you take her to dinner and a movie at gunpoint. It just seems so cave-man to me. "Ug! Me force orgasm with vibrator! Ug!" If you are that sexually incommensurate, perhaps it's better to just open a magazine and beat your meat like it owes you money.

Finally, if for whatever reason (be it low self esteem, inexperience, or impotence) you decide to strap her down and vibrate her, don't take it upon yourself to decide that her body can take more than her mind believes. If she says that's enough and you keep going anyway, you've crossed the line from consensual sex to rape and have just committed a felony.

Then it's off to prison where you'll get to experience first-hand the other side of the forced orgasm coin as you say good-bye to the one brown eye.

ViperGTS
Hey, if you don't like or agree with certain BDSM practices, that's fine. Your little opinions on this topic doesn't change the way the world actually works or the real definitions of these words or phrases within certain contexts, but you're entitled to them nonetheless.

Hey if you can prove me wrong, do it you little weasel. But you know you can’t so you just feel free to go right on standing there like an idiot, shaking your fist.

At this point another Forced Orgasm apologist decides to respond to me.

tonto
I agree 100% if you strap down some random woman and forced her to do anything when she says no. Then yes, you are commiting a crime. Going along these same lines. Since laughter is forced from someone when tickling them. When they are laughing and screaming "Stop! No! Dont!" You've gone and commited assault and battery. Same goes for flogging/bastinado/spanking.

EC4me
No argument here. I would however point out that assault and battery are mere misdemeanors while rape is a felony. Not all crimes are created equal.

Also, have you never heard of date rape? There are tons of cases in which the woman willingly goes out with a guy and even willingly goes to bed with him. She is cool until a certain point and wants to stop, but like that Energizer Bunny, that guy just keeeeps onnnn going. There are guys in jail right now for date rape. Why? Because they very foolishly decided her mind was saying no, but her body was saying yes. They found out the hardest way possible that her mind was the legal spokesperson for the rest of her body.

tonto
As to why the vibrator is being given as the example. Most videos of "forced orgasms" are done with one. I seriously doubt Viper who is a video producer himself is talking from a perspective of anything more then video. Even though the OP didn't mention specifically about forced orgasms in videos.

EC4me
If it's a video, we're basically talking about actors and actresses acting out a performance. If the video company in question has their act together, there will be a contract stating what's cool and what isn't, especially if there is bondage involved. Likewise, if the model is a professional one, she'll insist on a written contract.

If on the other hand we're just talking about some guy with a camera who decides to make a video with a female friend with no contract; then it comes down to verbal consent, which she can retract at any point during the encounter. And if she does say stop, and the guy decides her mind is saying no but her body is saying yes and he continues, that's when things can get real ugly real fast.

Of course, no interesting thread is complete without MTP Jeff poking his head in to remind us all who’s in charge.

MTP Jeff
I did some cleanup on this thread, please don't start discussing that fact here and just stick to the topic.

"Cleanup," he calls it. That’s Jeff’s favorite euphemism to use when he decides who gets to say what. And like any self-aggrandizing despot, he forbids anybody to challenge his decisions.

Mr. Anderson
Let's try to stay on topic here...m'kay?!

As for the OP, I agree with him.

All that crap about "forced orgasms" is, as Elaine Benes would say, fake...fake...fake...fake.

It's meant to sell video tapes. It's fantasy. Nothing more.
I mean, women have a hard enough time reaching orgasm as it is.

You can't force them into an orgasm, anymore than you can force them into cooking, cleaning, or any of their other duties.

ViperGTS
You, sir, are incorrect.

Some women enjoy being out of control, and having things done to them that they do not specifically like, because the act of submitting and being 'played' with is what they enjoy.
It not for everyone, and to each their own, but it DOES happen and some women DO like being FORCED to orgasm, be it once, twice, or seven times in a row.

Mr. Anderson
You're missing the point, Muchacho.

This isn't about if she likes it or not.

I'm agreeing with the OP's point, that it's acting done for the sake of a viewing audience.

You're selling videos with "forced orgasms". We get it.

If I wang dang the sweet poon tang, then grab a spatula and an egg beater and make her cheesy eggs; did I serve her, or did I force feed her?

According to you, if she didn't make her own breakfast, it's forced.

Check, please!

Recap:  TMF Clique Member Knot Amewzed started a second thread about his ruined marriage.  He no longer lives at home but has moved in with the Skipper.

Let’s pick this up with the conversation I had with the Skipper.

Skipadeedoodah
What does me being a woman have anything to do with any of this? If he moved in with a male fried, would it be better? He moved in with a friend – the gender of that friend shouldn’t matter.

Mayhem
Surely it isn't that hard to understand. Her reasons for kicking him out was because she resented his involvement with the TMF, specifically OTHER WOMEN from the TMF. So to prove her wrong, what does he do? He moves in with a woman from the TMF.

When they go for a divorce settlement, do you honestly believe that Knot's moving in with another woman, one he met on a fetish forum will not impact the Judge's decision in the slightest?

I think that you are too emotionally close to Knot to be objective. This is why I've resisted responding to you. I SAW the last thread.

Skipadeedoodah
Of course I'm not objective - why should I be? This isn't a test question, it's someone's life. And yes, I am very close with Knot, which is why he's staying with me. Not because I'm a woman. Not because I'm from the TMF. Not because he wants to prove anything to his wife. He doesn't need to prove anything to anyone, because just about anyone who matters knows the truth and/or trusts that he's been honest, which he has, from the very beginning.

Why should you be objective??  Only because you're participating in a forum discussion and I assume you want people to take you seriously.  By launching these shrill objections you show us all the depth of your emotional involvement.  You betray your own desires and possessive intentions.

As far as a judge looking down on his choice of moving out with someone he met in a fetish community - that's ridiculous. Unless it affects his ability to parent his child, which it does not, or she can prove infidelity, which she can't because it hasn't happened, it won't be taken into consideration.

So even though Knot is moving out of state from his child, to live with a woman he met in a fetish community – that isn’t going to impact his relationship with his child one bit, according to the Skipper.  Nor will any judge on the planet regard this fact as having any significance.

Her naivety is frightening.

This next guy is somebody with whom I’ve never had any personal confrontations, but his long clumsy name and the fact he has a cutesy LOLCAT in his signature both say something about him.

vladtickleman22
Since you saw the other thread. You know that in the past Knot has given up things in the past when she wanted him to. While i definately agree that his wife is more then likely jealous of the attention he gets from females here. As seen in his original thread when he stated his wife walked away when he was having fun with other females. That however isn't his problem. It's hers and something she has to work through.

Mayhem
Hmm. It sure seems to be his problem now.

Anyway, I appreciate all the fine discussion we've had here.

It's been an interesting day. I wish Knot and Skipadeedoodah well in their new life together.

I hope Knot's ex and his daughter find somebody to take care of them.

Be well, all.

Mayhem

ticklingnemesis
Wow. Just wow. Apparently men and women can't be friends, if you're drawing the conclusion that they're together.

The only conclusions I’m drawing is that Knot left his wife and daughter to live with another woman from the TMF.  If that sounds bad, maybe there’s a reason it does.

ticklingnemesis
I don't know Knot, but from what I've read of his posts, he's a good guy getting treated shitty by the woman who vowed to love him 'til death do them part.

Nemesis is a study in contradictions.  She says she doesn’t know Knot, but then talks about what a great guy he is and how shitty his wife treats him.

unclebill
I hate to see a family broke apart because of a tickling fetish, but whats done is done. I do hope Knot finds what he's looking for, and hopefully Ms. Knot will find a new man who will take care of her and the child.

It isn’t just me who sees what’s so obvious and plain.  Kudos to bill for speaking up.  The clique absolutely hate these sentiments, though.  They want all of the blame to go to Mrs. Amewzed.  They want a unanimous consensus that Knot was totally in the right.  It infuriates them that this is not happening.

Skipadeedoodah
I'm sorry. Did I miss a crucial detail? Is Knot refusing to take care of his daughter? I didn't see that anywhere in here. For some reason, I got the impression that he's taking the necessary steps to see her and be in her life as much as her mother is. Where would I have gotten an idea like that?????

Oh I remember...from watching him do it. That's right. Now I remember.

And you watched this how, Skipper?  Through your crystal ball, perhaps?  I mean, we are talking about the future of this child.  Well, my crystal ball shows me something else entirely.  I look into the future and I see a deadbeat dad missing child support payments so he can afford to go to gatherings. 

Glamorous
It really is amusing how people keep saying they hope she finds someone to take care of her and her child. Apparently they've never been children of divorce..

She says that as if those of us whose parents actually kept their marital commitments missed out on some crucial benefit to growing up known only to children from broken homes.  Glam honey, there’s a word for families in which the parents are divorced.  It’s called “dysfunctional.”

Glamorous
I'm sure he'll be there for his daughter just as much as his wife is.

How can that possibly be true?  He’s LEAVING them!  The daughter will live with her mother while Knot lives with The Skipper.  When the divorce settlement is final, he’ll be lucky to get alternate weekend visitation.

Glamorous
This is insane that people rather him stay in a non working relationship, then do what's best for his family.

What’s best for his family is for Knot to put his wife and daughter as a higher priority than his schmoozing the babes on the TMF. 

Glamorous
I'm really ashamed of some of you that have indicated he is abandoning his daughter.

That indication was given by Knot himself when he announced his departure from his wife and daughter to move in with the Skipper.  Mom and daughter are staying.  Dad is leaving.  If that’s not abandonment, I don’t know what is.

No doubt some will argue, “But Drew, he’s not abandoning them!  She kicked him out!” 

That’s a cop-out.  If he were committed to his daughter, he’d stand his ground and tell his wife, “Look!  If you’ve got a problem with me, I can’t stop you from leaving, but don’t expect me to abandon my daughter because I won’t!”

This idea that Knot had no choice but to leave is bullshit.  Unless she had him evicted or pointed a gun to his head, his departure was voluntary.

Carsomyr
Ok, guys... Imma just say this once...

“Imma just say this once”??  Probably a good thing, unless you want to sound like a retard repeatedly.

Carsomyr
FOR FUCKS SAKE stop bickering! Knot is in a very tough situation and needs our support, he does NOT need us hijacking his thread to argue back and forth about irrelevant bullshit like this.

To those of you who go in here and start analyzing and even questioning the situation: What the fuck?!? I can't believe Knot has to put up with this AS WELL!

This thread was in the General Discussion Forum.  Any topic posted there invites analyzing and questioning.  And Knot didn’t have to put up with any of it.  He could (should) have shared this only with his close friends.  Instead, he shared it with everybody, clearly not having learned his lesson from last time. 

Sanhael  (to Bohemianne)
Empty negativity won't get you anywhere, y'know.

Bohemianne
^ THAT is YOUR opinion.

Knot Amewzed
You are an idiot.  That’s my opinion.

A textbook GR Violation.  Only those in the Clique can get away with such behavior. 

You may remember in part one of this installment a woman who goes by the name of Canadian Eh.  She was the whiner who just couldn’t understand why anybody would want to be negative in this thread. 

Check out how she responds to Knot’s bare-knuckled attack against Bohemianne.

Canadian Eh
LOL Jeff, Words can't even begin to describe how awesome you really are .. I <3 you

Can you believe this hypocrite?  We were all so uncool to offer respectful criticism of Knot’s decision, but it’s totally okay for Knot to attack a sweet soul like Bohemianne and call her an idiot.  The clique mentality has no room for fair minded consistency of philosophy.

Bohemianne
^ Your opinion had shown what kind of MAN you are. Impress me more.

Knot Amewzed
...yes, because we are destined for each other, and I truly want to show to you the man I can potentially become through your guidance, emotional support, and logically objective viewpoints regarding someone who is actually hurt over a breakup. I am getting so moist right now.

You’re getting moist?  But....Isn't that what pussies do?

Knot Amewzed

At first I was upset when I read your reply; then, I immediately realized that it came from someone who merely types to hear the funny clicking noises that her keyboard makes.

I'm sorry... *insert sad who gives a fuck emoticon here*
Do you know what? Let's start over. My name is Jeff, what's yours?

Bohemianne
Yes. I was so impressed how easily you get agitated and call someone an idiot because you can't accept what you read.

If you try to re-read everything I post, I was trying to poke YOUR thread because of its private nature. As someone detached to your personal problem, I am seeing it in another perspective. Then after a page, I WAS close to suggesting that there must be a subforum for people who need serious support outside General Discussion. It is place where you CAN shoo anyone who will not agree with you. I am serious about that, and it did not come from the rumbling of my keyboard.

Your apology is not yet accepted.

And next time, be strong and DON'T BE weak. You have a family to resolve. Don't LET a small female like me agitate you by CALLING me IDIOT just as that.

Knot Amewzed
I call them how I see them. Personally, if someone posted an update on a sensitive issue regarding what was going on with his or her life, I wouldn't have been as crass as you were. Shame on me for thinking that people would either show me support or just don't show anything at all. Was agitating me your goal all along? You have managed to agitate one of the easiest people to get along with. Good job!

Yes, Knot. Shame on you and you still don't even get why.  Most people would have known what would inevitibly happen if they decide to air their dirty laundry on a very public forum which includes friends and strangers.  A dumb ass would have to make that discovery the painful way. 

But you Knot, made the discovery and then still did the same thing all over again!  That puts you in an extremely rare class of stupidity.

Knot Amewzed
Be strong, don't be weak??? You do not know me or the issues that I have had to deal with during this relationship or throughout my entire life. A lesser man may have fallen many years ago. How dare you call me weak? Try going through half of what I had to encounter, take two reality pills, and call me in the morning.

Oh for the love of God, somebody break out a violin already.  You made your own bed, dude.  You chose the TMF over your family.  And if your wife is half the shrew you paint her to be, why’d you marry her in the first place?  Why’d you get her pregnant?

TonyInMyThroat
Considering what happened with the last thread and then requesting that it be removed, one could only conclude that Knot actually wants public exposure on the subject, which of course invites opposing opinions.

Knot Amewzed
Honestly?  I can give a flying fuck about what the people who don’t know me has to say.

Suuure.  That’s why you called Bohemianne an idiot and lost your temper with virtually everybody in this thread who doesn’t “know” you. 

TonyInMyThroat
Unfortunately they won’t be the only ones judging your behavior here. As you’ve mentioned this is only your side of the story. Who do you think she’s giving her side to? How many of those individuals, with no understanding of this community, will end up here and just mention it in passing to another acquaintance of yours?

I hope you’ve really thought this through for all the possible pit falls that could come out of documenting this publically. One certainly being the enormous amount of blog fodder you’ve already created for Drew, even if you decide to delete this thread as well.

Tony is a smart man.

Knot Amewzed
Tony...I honestly do not understand what you are getting at here. Another acquaintance? I plan on starting my life over; that includes a restart, with or without, my family. I want to remain true to myself. I really do not know what possible bad could come out of posting this thread. The marriage is over and I said nothing that would detriment child custody or asset distribution. Besides, who the hell is Drew?

Who, indeed! 

I underlined a critical portion of Knot’s statement here for the benefit of Glamorous, the Skipper, and anybody else who doesn’t understand where we get the idea that Knot is abandoning his family.

Greetings, one and all.  It’s been a while since I’ve posted, but the time has come to once again provide an unauthorized and disapproved point of view. 

I’m sure most of you remember that embarrassing fiasco that Knot Amewzed put himself through a while back in the TMF’s General Discussion forum.  I covered it here.  In a nutshell, Knot posted a thread in which he advised things were going badly with his wife, specifically over the TMF and the people there.  Knot was looking for support, of which he got plenty.  But when people started giving him hard advice, Knot and the Thread Nannies (mostly clique members) jumped all over anybody not inclined to support Knot’s position, no matter how friendly they voiced their opinions.  Ultimately, Knot and company were progressively looking worse and worse.  Seeing this, Knot begged the forum admins to delete the entire thread, which was done. 

One would think that Knot would have learned his lesson from that thread, but lo and behold, a couple of months later, here he comes again in a new thread called Update on My Personal Situation which just like the other one, starts out positive, then spirals into oblivion.  And just like the first one, this one was deleted at Knot’s request.

Knot Amewzed
Update.
On Friday I was thrown out of my house due to my wife not accepting my fetish desires, not approving of me talking to my friends, and our turmoil interfering with the nurturing of our child. I have moved in with my friend Lyz until I find a residency. Personally, I can't stop thinking about if she is doing OK and I miss my daughter to death. She may have told my family about the fetish, because they are leaving me nasty messages and demanding that I go back to her. I do not want to talk to any of them yet, since I do not feel that I can lean on them for support at this moment in time.

Thank you all for being supportive in my earlier post regarding my situation. You have all been a real family and mean the world to me.

Love,
Jeff

A real family, he says.  We’re talking about an Internet Forum.  A forum that serves as a source of sexual fantasy for the bulk of its members.  His “real family” is a clique of socially under-developed misfits who flee to the Internet because they can’t function socially in the real world except with each other.

And he wonders why his blood family is so disgusted with his actions and decisions to put the TMF first and his wife and daughter second. 

The rest of this page and the next are all people offering support and sympathy for his situation, which in truth I have no problem with.  The guy is their friend and he’s in a miserable situation.  But not every TMF member is Knot’s friend.  Some have legitimate questions as to the wisdom of airing all this dirty laundry publically, especially with his wife not there to present her side of the story.

Bohemianne
Obviously you got your friend's support. I think this is generally unfair for the "wife." I got nothing to do with your life, but just reading this thread is making her the antagonist of the show, seriously.

This must be kept private between you and your friends and not for mass reading like this... It is beginning to get to the nerves, IMO.
Don't take it personally.

And of course, the self-appointed head nanny of all Knot’s “I’m a victim, love me!” threads can’t tolerate anything less than full support.

Skipadeedoodah
No one is making you read or respond to anything. If you're tired of hearing about it, might I suggest you redirect your attention to something more suitable to your needs?

Saying you don't know anything about his life is an understatement, and despite the fact that you seem to think pointing out the obvious gives you the right to then pass judgment on the way he's handling it, it doesn't.

I have to say, it probably won't kill you to NOT judge on someone because they don't share your opinion or do what you think they should do. I mean, it might, we won't know considering it appears as though you've never tried it, but that's a chance I'm willing to take.

Don't take it personally.

Bohemianne
Of course I am not taking it personally. This is your thread anyway, not mine.

I am just saying that it is for public consumption, as I can use the function to post anything that I can.

Not according to some.  Once again, we have thread nannies trying to tell people how to post.  I’m all for defending one’s friends, but there are ways to go about it that are much smarter, more effective, and far less petulant.  Sadly, such concepts seem to be beyond this next fellow.

Sanhael
I must be confused--certainly, a not uncommon occurrence--as I thought your last post was to the effect of "I don't think you should post what you're posting, because it's annoying me." To follow up a subsequent charge of being tasteless and inappropriate with "I can post whatever I want" seems a bit hypocritical.

Bo wasn’t saying "I don't think you should post what you're posting, because it's annoying me." She’s saying he shouldn’t air a private matter publically especially without the other party present to give her side.

Moreover, Bo only says she can respond any way she likes as long as it’s within the GR constraints; unlike Sanhael and The Skipper who seem to be saying, “We can post whatever we like and dictate how others are permitted to respond.”

Sanhael
You did, of course, stop to consider that his wife seems to be telling her side of the story to whomever she pleases, including his family?

And you know this…how?  Oh right, the same way we “know” about the rest of it.  By only hearing one side of the story.  If Knot’s wife is telling Knot’s family what he’s up to, Knot is perfectly able to step in present a defense.  And if his family believes her over him, I can’t help but wonder if there’s a good historical reason for that.

At this point, people were ganging up on Bohemianne as they always do in typical TMF lynch mob fashion.  I decided to step in myself.

Mayhem
I’ve seen Knot's pictures. He's a pretty buff guy. Looks like a body-builder. I have difficulty picturing his wife throwing him out of the house.

We're only hearing one side of this story. Nothing personally against Knot, he seems like a great guy and he has lots of friends here.

But what I see is a man putting a fetish forum as a higher priority than his marriage and family, literally walking out on the two of them, moving in with another woman.

That is certainly his choice to make; but now that he's made it, I hope the wife finds what she's looking for as well: A man who is more interested in being a husband and father than socializing on a fetish forum.

Skipadeedoodah
Quite a literal interpretation. I didn't think it needed to be specified that "throwing out" does not mean she picked up his body and hurled him onto the lawn. She told him to leave. He left.

Let's not turn this into a family vs forum debate again, hm? Everyone's entitled to their opinions, but it would be nice if this thread didn't suffer the same bastardization as before.

I, too, hope that she finds what she's looking for. You and I just happen to disagree about what that actually is.

Mayhem
You're free to express your hopes as to the direction any thread will take, but forgive me if I'm not particularly inclined to acknowledge your authority here.

Let's just let the discussion proceed naturally, what do you say?

"A conversation should resolve itself of it's own volition." -Jerry Seinfeld

Canadian Eh
I really don't see why you felt the need to go on the attack here. How can you say it's "Nothing personal" when you just outright attacked him?! .. You know nothing of his situation or why he did what he had to do. I'm sure he made this thread to update the people who DO know all about his situation and who have stoood by him through it all. If you're not one of those people, then what is the point of even posting in this thread?! . And did you ever think that to a whole lot of people this is more then just a "Fetish forum"?, I won't speak for Knot, but I know that if my S/O asked me to leave this forum I would be giving up something that's WAY more important to me.. Friends. If you don't come here for the people and you only come for the "Fetish" aspect of the forum, that's fine, but don't judge those that look for a little more.

Moral of the rant people?! ... Don't Judge What you REALLY don't Know!

Mayhem
Don't be ridiculous. I'm not judging or attacking Knot. I made it clear that was not my intention. I'm simply giving my opinion on his decision to leave his wife and daughter, and move in with another woman.

You disagree with my opinion. Seriously, I'm okay with that. I don't view it as you attacking or judging me. You make some good points about the TMF being more than a fetish forum for many people. But you have to understand that your feelings in this matter don't necessarily reflect everybody's. I happen to believe that family should come before all else, even a fetish forum that's more than a fetish forum. Perhaps I'm alone in that belief, but that won't for a minute change it.

Are you saying I'm not entitled to this opinion, or just that I'm not entitled to express it here in this thread? Does everybody have to side with Knot in order to have non-attacking status?

Canadian Eh
I'm not saying you have to agree or disagree with us, you're entitled to your own opinion, i'm saying I can't understand why people would post something negative like that in a post where someone is obviously turning to friends and looking for support. You don't have to agree with his actions or how he handled it, but the truth of the matter is it's HIS situation to handle and he did what he felt he needed to.

Mayhem
I'm honestly not getting you here. You say I'm entitled to post my opinion yet you turn around and say you can't understand how I could post my opinion.

poetic
I don't know you or Jeff, so don't get all defensive reading this.
None of us can truly understand what he's going through. The person he loves doesn't accept him or even try to fully understand him and boots him. His blood family is turning on him rather than backing him. He didn't choose to follow this path, he's being pushed towards it and is doing his best to keep a clear mind while doin so. So instead of caving to the negativity and submitting to the will of others by changing into something he's not, he reaches for his surrogate family for strength to gain a foothold on this dark mountain. Are you really saying that he is wrong for seeking support from the only 'family' willing to give it? The man's going through hell and trying to seek help and relief from the only source of it he has right now, and you're saying that he's in the wrong?

Mayhem
Yes, that's basically my opinion. He's certainly welcome to seek support from wherever he may choose to find it, but he's made it clear this forum and his friends here are more important to him than staying with his wife and daughter.

Consider this. Even if he had no choice but to leave (and unless she is the sole owner of the house, I don't see how this could be true) moving in with another woman only serves to validate the reasons he was asked to leave in the first place.

If your wife asked you to leave your home because she suspected you were cheating, would you move in with another woman to convince your wife you still love her?

Skipadeedoodah
She knows he’s with me.

Once again, can you please explain why me being a woman has anything to do with anything?  How does him moving in with me validate her reasons for kicking him out?  Are you kidding me?

Mayhem
Surely it isn't that hard to understand. Her reasons for kicking him out was because she resented his involvement with the TMF, specifically OTHER WOMEN from the TMF. So to prove her wrong, what does he do? He moves in with a woman from the TMF.

When they go for a divorce settlement, do you honestly believe that Knot's moving in with another woman, one he met on a fetish forum will not impact the Judge's decision in the slightest?

I think that you are too emotionally close to Knot to be objective. This is why I've resisted responding to you. I SAW the last thread.

Crystal Light
No, it really won't. Judges don't really have a tendency to make while, un-educated assumptions like some of yours have been.

Mayhem

> No, it really won't. Judges don't really
> have a tendency to make wild, uneducated
> assumptions like some of yours have been.

Fixed. :p

LOL.  I don’t normally point out spelling and grammar errors but this is exactly what CLIT does.  It’s one of the many ways she tries (and fails) to look smart.  I’m sure she didn’t appreciate a taste of her own medicine.  Oh well.

(To be continued…)

On the TMF, CLIT loves nothing better than to talk up a tough game with threats of ass-kicking, etc.  Here is a couple of examples.

CrystalLight
The best thing to do is to ignore those that are deliberately trying to hurt you or your experience here and to take as much out of this place as each and everyone of you put in. If that involves meeting someone you hate, FAR away from forum and beating the shit out of them on strict principle? Well-- you learned something, didn't you?

CrystalLight
I would've drop-kicked him in the balls.

Yessiree, that’s our CLIT.  She’s one tough bitch and if you don’t believe it, just ask her. 

Actually, what most people don’t yet realize, is that CLIT’s real weapon is her tears, which she can turn on and off as easily as you or I can run water in the kitchen sink.  This is how she got Dave2112 fired from his seven-year position as TMF Senior Moderator.  By crying to Jeff, spreading lies about how Dave “mistreated” her, etc. 

Now, she’s using the same tactic to convince people that I’m “stalking” or “harassing” her.  The sad thing is that she lies as easily to her friends  as to anybody else.

She bases much of these stalkative accusations on an email dialogue I had with her.  She says it’s stalking because she never gave me her email address.  The truth is that she had posted this email address on her baby blog for all the world to see.  It’s public knowledge.

It would be like me accusing somebody of stalking because they sent me an email to drew70blog@gmail.com

Anyway, I thought I’d post the two-way conversation CLIT and I had, and you can all decide for yourselves whether or not it constitutes “stalking.”

drew70 - Thu, Apr 2, 2009
Hi Jo,

Hope you don't mind the unsolicited email.  But it's been a while since we chatted so I thought, what the hell?  Can you believe it's been four months since Jeff banned me?  Where does the time go?!  But his banning streak didn't stop with me, did it?  No, once he tasted blood, he found he liked it.  He also banned PunkRockerGirl, Nostradamas, Richie Gitchy, and God knows who else.

Now what could all those different people have in common?  Oh wait, I know.  We all made derogatory comments to you, Jo.  Wow, is this a small world or what?!  Now, I'd been on the TMF since 2001.  Hah, you were what?  Thirteen?  You were probably just getting started on your center of the universe career, having yet to utter your first wharbargarble or confusing the words win and fail for collective nouns.

But I digress.  My point was that in all that time, I've seen a lot of conflict on the TMF.  I've personally given and received a lot worse than the lightweight barbs to you that earned us a permanent vacation from the TMF.  Gee, you must be awfully special in Jeff's eyes, for him to just start banning people right and left like that.  He must really obsess over you.  He has a history of obsessing over young girls, you know.  Before you, it was Mairead.  Before Mairead, it was Ticklkitten.  I imagine that when Mammers starts going to NEST, Jeff will shift his focus as he's done so many times.

And Bella?  Jesus, don't even get me started on that bitch.  Believe it or not, I was friends with Bella for many years, and have even been tickle tortured by her hand.  What I ultimately discovered is that Bella will be your friend as long as you acknowledge her as the reigning expert in all things BDSM, Polyamory, or child-rearing.  When I didn't yield to her insisted point of view on these matters, that's all it took for her to show her true colors.  Doesn't it bother you that Bella is never wrong?  That there is nobody on the forum for whom she will yield as better qualified to speak on any matter?  That her "love" and "friendship" all hinge on acknowledging her superiority?  The worst TMF administrative decision, bar none, was to make somebody as egotistical as Bella a moderator.  Might as well appoint a hopeless alcoholic to CEO of Anheuser Busch.

Well, I suppose I should wrap this up, but there is so much more we could talk about, if you're up to it.  I've got a unique perspective.  wink wink.

See ya,

Drew

CrystalLight - Thu, Apr 2, 2009
Punkrockergirl apparently requested to be banned. We've spoken in PM and she vented her frustrations. You haz teh suck at assumptions.

Srsly-- don't you think you know.. you're being a little creepy to be e-mailing me. Especially when I never gave you my e-mail address? You claim of Jeff being obsessed with me.. yet... you're the one who hasn't left me alone. Do I need to call the police?

Drew70 - Thu, Apr 2, 2009
LOL.  By all means, call the police.  I can just imagine the conversation.

"Officer, I'd like to report a crime."

"What's the nature of this crime?"

"I received an unsolicited email from this older man."

"Did he threaten you in any way?"

"Well no, but..."

"Did he make sexual advances?"

"ZOMG, no, but he..."

"Has he been stalking you?"

"Yes!  He's obsessed with me!"

"Now we're getting somewhere.  So you are getting regular emails?"

"Well no.  Just one."

"Phone calls?"

"No."

"Have you seen him in your area at all?"

"No, you have it all wrong.  He used to make snide comments about me on a tickling forum!  He was banned for it four months ago.  Now I'm getting an email from him.  He needs to be locked up for harrassme....

*click*

"Hello?  Officer?  HELLOOO????"

So, Punkrocker explained to you why she was banned in PM?  That's interesting because when I was banned, I was shocked to discover my PM no longer functioned.  That was really hitting below the belt, if you ask me.  Are you also telling people that drew70, Nostradamas, and Richie Gitchy also "requested to be banned" out of "frustration"?

Jo, any normal person would feel guilt, remorse or at the very least discomfort over being the reason that so many were banned.  I know you thrive on attention, but you're missing the bigger picture here.  Jeff clearly regards you as being too fragile to deal with people who don't like you.  In his eyes, you are incapable of defending yourself.  He obviously feels you lack the emotional stability to shrug off unflattering comments so he steps in as your White Knight, rescuing the helpless damsel in distress.  And you're okay with that?  Because I got to tell you.  People ARE noticing.  Just as they are noticing all the "I Love You's" that Jeff leaves on your public profile.

Hey, nice job on that Polyamory thread you started.  I found myself agreeing with Morgan more than anybody else.  Especially when he pointed out yours and Bella's faux pas.  haha.  But if you want to see an even more interesting thread on Polyamory, check this out:

http://74.53.42.102/showthread.php?t=78867

More than likely I won't be attending NEST.  This will be the first year in eight that I'll have missed it.  After I was banned, Lee told me I could still come.  And while there are many friends of mine I'd like to see, there are too many people I'd just as soon not.  So, I'm afraid you'll have relish in your pigtails, pj's, and binkies without me.

Drink a Diet Coke for me.

Drew

CrystalLight - Thu, Apr 2, 2009
Or maybe all I have to do is show him the blog of which you proceed to write in obsessive format. Or the fact that I've never given you my e-mail address before. Clear signs of stalker behavior. It won't get you arrested but it'll grant you a restraining order. Drew, you're almost, what, 60? Don't you have a wife? Children? Sheep? Something to do besides obsess over me or Ray or Jeff? Seriously?

Is this what you've come to? Venting your frustrations on a blog because you got yourself banned from a fetish forum? There's at least 4 others that you can stake your claim in, yet, you just seem bitter to no end about this. The place had moved on without you and yet you continue to stalk it. I don't thrive off of attention drew, clearly you do. Either that or you've become my biggest fan because you're just giving me all of this attention. I mean, a blog.. more or less all about me? If that's not attention, I don't know what is.
You really need to just move on, drew.

drew70

"Hello Officer??  Yeah, it's me again.  I forgot to tell you that he also wrote about me in his blog!"

*click*

"Helloo??  HELLOO??"

Jo, I was unceremoniously kicked out of a forum that I'd invested a lot of time.  I scanned, cropped, and posted over two thousand tickling photos, just to share with the community.  I spent over a year working on that four-part song parody, "Makin People Laugh."  All for the community to enjoy.  Nostradamas and I worked hard on those three Christmas songs.  Not to sell.  To share.  With the community.

Then one guy gets to decide I'm no longer a part of that community?  He has no legitimate grounds on which to ban me.  He can't even point to a single rules violation.  He just does it because he can.  He wants to impress his girlfriend-hopeful.  He then holds my trial after I'm banned and hence unable to offer any defense.

And I'm supposed to just accept that graciously and walk away?  I don't think so. Granted, my beef is more with Jeff than you.  After all, you're just a passing fancy in whom he'll eventually lose interest as will the rest of the forum.

To answer your questions.  I'm 52 or will be in June.  I have a lovely wife of 15 years.  She has an extremely low opinion of the TMF and wonders what I could have ever seen in such a pack of losers.  (Her description, not mine).  I tried to tell her that they aren't ALL losers.  That there are other people besides you, Jeff, Bella, Venray, KrazyDog, and Viper.  Imagine my amusement when Venray threatened to let Tracy to talk to her about me. ^_^

I do have sheep, and I strongly suspect they get more love and attention than your son.

As far as my blog goes, it's about my bans and mistreatment at the hands of power-crazy moderators.  I started that blog because I was banned and I needed an outlet to vent my feelings on the matter.  Since my last two bans were because of you, you really shouldn't be surprised at your less-than-honorable mention.

Drew

Well, that’s it.  That’s the extent of me stalking Crystal Light.  A two-way email dialogue.  When she didn’t respond to this last email, I sent no more to her and haven’t sent her anything since.

Once again, the TMF administration completes yet another exercise in rampant favoritism toward Crystal Light and The Clique.  It started with Myriads posting a new thread regarding the tagging of threads.  Tagging is a more recent V-Bulletin feature that allows one to tag any thread with a word or short phrase by which one can later search for any threads with that particular tag.  The tags for any thread can be seen at the bottom of that thread’s page.

Evidently some were “abusing” the tag feature, leaving insulting or derogatory tags as a mean spirited gesture.  While the “unwashed masses” (as Bella likes to refer to the greater TMF membership) can’t see who left the tags, the TMF admins can.  Instead of calling out those responsible (probably because many had Clique status), Myriads instead posted a thread called Abuse of Tags to warn people not to leave insulting or derogatory tags.

Myriads
Hello folks,

Just a heads up.

We are aware that a number of you are using the tag function to GR some forum members. This is an announcement to say Stop it. If it keeps up we are going to kill the function.

Myriads

This is a perfect example of the half-assed way Jeff and Myriads go about defining the rules of conduct.  I mean, could this announcement BE any more vague?  Don’t get me wrong.  I like Myriads.  I believe he’s sincere in doing what he feels is the best way to run the forum.  In this arena of forum conduct management, I happen to believe he is sincerely wrong.

Instead of just a vague warning that will soon be buried, why not a well-laid-out post in rules sub-forum explaining how to properly use the tags, while going into some detail about what sort of tags will not be tolerated.  Then, it’s just a simple task to clean up any tags that violate policy. 

But no, they are convinced that such specificity takes away the feeling of freedom and quenches the spirit of creativity, fostering an atmosphere of rigidity.  Well, sorry to piss on your bed of roses guys, but that ship sailed the moment you decided on a forum wide policy of censorship. 

But I digress.

Like most threads, the initial responses kept to the topic which in this case was tags and their proper use.

Fire Sprite
What are those even for?

Bugman
Same here.  I don't get it.

RobAce
Tags are useful to link threads with common themes together. Such as all you could link the deaths of celebrities with the tag "celebrities RIP" or you could link all the music video threads with "music video".

Steph
I don't understand either. I see some random post about some such nonsense and at the bottom is "Estelle Getty" as a tag. I know I'm old but I am nowhere near that old, what gives?????
XOXO

This is how a thread is supposed to work.  The initial or opening post (often referred to as the OP) defines a topic for discussion.  People respond with related questions or input.

Of course, no thread can continue along peacefully without The Clique becoming involved.

CrystalLight
Tag Wars '09. Assumed way of getting away with things. Becomes fail. Don't want to lose tag feature. Must behave.

If you’re having trouble understanding her, that only means you probably have an education beyond 6th grade English.  What CLIT is saying here in her own retarded way is that she’s one of the worst offenders of tag abuse; and that while she vows to exercise all powers of restraint to discontinue this habit, she’s doubtful of her potential for success.  It’s a doubt I’m quite sure is shared by many.

Skipadeedoodah
Agreed. I love the tag feature. Let's not lose it by being a bunch of silly gooses.

Notice The Skipper recommends not being silly with respect to the tags.  It’s a good attitude to spread, but you’ll see shortly that she does an about face.

CrystalLight
Yeah. For what it's worth it took every ounce of will power I have not to tag this thread.

Well maybe if you spent more time with your little boy, you’d be less compelled to screw around on the TMF 24/7.  Or here’s a novel idea…Get a freaking job and quit sponging off Mom!

Skipadeedoodah
So wait, are silly tags not allowed? Or just mean tags are not allowed?

Some of these people have absolutely no buffer between their brain and their fingertips.  They type without even thinking about what they are saying or asking.  There’s no rocket science here, Skipper.  You know there’s already a forum designated for all silly stuff.  That would also be the forum for silly tags. 

Feel kind of stupid now, do you?  Go with the feeling!

CrystalLight
I think if it's a possible GR violation, then we can't do it.

Well I hope that solving this complicated puzzle didn’t tax the grey matter too strenuously.  How did you ever crack Myriads’ code?

Skipadeedoodah
Yeah that's what I thought.

Crystal Light
Enabler.

From here on, this thread like so many others completely deteriorates to witless banter, completely off topic.  The next seven pages are full of nothing but mindless, unimaginative drivel of the kind that just makes you marvel at how little the human race has evolved from the primates.

Pages 6 through 9 consist of CLIT and Brighteyes acting like seven-year-olds, each trying to out-pwn the other with empty threats while a couple of the guys try unsuccessfully to insert themselves in the melee. 

Now, everybody knows that The Clique gets preferential treatment from the moderators, but by page nine, I’m thinking that administrative intervention is inevitable, even by Clique standards.

Finally, Myriads makes a long awaited reappearance.  Surely, he’ll put a stop to this runaway rollercoaster.

Or will he?

Myriads
I consider it a fine public service that you are keeping my message about tags nicely bumped for all to see.

Thank you. You two subbie girls are always so helpful.

Unbelievable.  Not only does Myriads NOT put a stop to the off-topic spam which flagrantly violates the “stay on topic” rules that everybody outside The Clique is required to follow; he actually ENCOURAGES more of it!

Time and time again they angrily and indignantly insist that there is no clique, there is no favoritism.  Yet once again, here it is, naked and unabashed.

Most of the time when this happens, nobody says anything.  But this instance was so pronounced, somebody spoke up.  I suspect this is a well-known forum member who is posing in disguise so as not to risk his standing in the community.

Mayhem
Well, if you're at all interested in some administrative consistency, you might consider deleting all the hi-jacks and making your original message a sticky.

Of course, if you prefer to show favoritism, simply leave it as is.

Tough to argue with that.  If Myriads was really concerned with keeping his message afloat, he could have made it a sticky.  Of course, General Discussion is usually already plastered with about five of them at any given point in time.  Still, it would have accomplished the goal without having to sacrifice administrative integrity. 

ticklingnemesis
What favoritism?

I can't speak for myriads but maybe he didn't think this warranted a sticky. Just a reminder to everyone to remember the GR even when tagging a thread.

What favoritism??  Have you even READ this thread??  Why, the favoritism that allows and even encourages off-topic spam between two chicks when others get beat up on for breaches in topicality.  THAT’S what favoritism.  What part of that do you not understand? 

Mayhem
He thanked CrystalLight and Brighteyes1082 for all the hi-jacking they did with their off-topic banter, because it helped keep his message about the tags bumped up to the top of the front page.

That suggests that he wants his tags warning not to get buried into obscurity. A sticky would have done a far better job at keeping the message in the forefront.

By allowing and even encouraging the rampant off-topic thread hi-jacking, Myriads is sending a message that certain people can get away with behavior that is otherwise frowned upon. Hence, your favoritism.

I couldn’t have explained it better myself.  Still, some people can be shown the truth right in front of their faces, but unless they choose to open their eyes, they won’t see it.

ticklingnemesis
Like I said, I can't speak for Myriads but I don't think that's what he meant. At least not seriously. Because if he was serious about it, this would have been a sticky. But it's not. Just a little reminder to everyone to adhere to the GR.

That’s twice you said you can’t speak for Myriads, and twice you’ve done it anyway.

ticklingnemesis
Myriads has friends on here. You can't expect an admin/mod to not have friends. He is friends with Crystal and Brighteyes and was teasing them. Other people got it by commenting on how 'epic' it is. At least that's what I got.

Well, yeah.  That’s the problem.  He’s flirting with them instead of deleting their stupid shit or at the very least telling them to knock it off.  But because they are his friends, they get a pass.

ticklingnemesis
You've only been a member here for a short time. Have you really learned the dynamics of this forum that quickly? Or are you just going by the rumors and innuendos of others who have problems with the forum and the people who run it?

This is a typical strategy for those who can’t rely on a logical point and counterpoint style of debate.  They attempt to minimize their opponents’ confidence and effectiveness by pointing out a low post count or short duration of membership.  What’s next, pointing out grammatical mistakes?

Mayhem
You're the second person who's suggested that my brief history invalidates my opinions or observations. I'm afraid I don't intimidate that easily.

You asked what I meant by favoritism and I think I've explained it pretty well. Pointing out that Myriads is a personal friend of the the girls does little to dissuade these opinions. Quite the reverse, actually.

ticklingnemesis
It's not favoritism because he's friends with them. Many people have off-topic-ed this thread, not just Crystal and BrightEyes. If it was favoritism, he would have shut this down as soon as anyone else posted their off-topic silliness.

No.  Once Crystal and The Clique took the thread in a downward spiral, the decision was made to let it happen.  Myriads is not stupid.  If he or any of the other mods had jumped on Excess or Mr. Scruff, that would convince even the staunchest apologists that favoritism not only exists, it’s standard policy. 

This way, people like nemesis could continue to turn a blind eye.

ticklingnemesis
I'm not saying your brief history invalidates your opinions but I do question how you can make judgments about people when you've only been on here a short time?

I’m sensing a pattern with this chick.  Here, she says that Mayhem’s noob status doesn’t invalidate his opinions, then proceeds to explain how it does.

Myriads
I created a number of these tag threads in a few visible forums to remind members that abusing a function is not something we wanted to see happening.

The purpose of this thread was that and no more. It was not intended to be a discussion about the tags, though if that happened then I would have been troubled. It was designed to be a short term reminder. I tend to reserve stickies about rules to really dire things. Not minor issues. Thus why I did not stick and lock it.

As such the thread did not have what I saw as a 'topic' that could be hijacked. By bumping the post with the fun and games the girls were having gave it more exposure, and I chose to tweak them with my comment to that end. Yes, sometimes I *DO* have a sense of humor.

I don't tolerate hi-jackings in threads with defined reasons for being, and even err on the side of caution when I'm not sure what a OP's desired discussion direction is. And I crack heads known and unknown all the same. People who know me here, and who are 'friends', can speak to the fact that I swat them just as quickly as anyone else when they break a rule.

Thank you for keeping my message near the top of the ever busy GenDis for another day. It's been appreciated.

Myriads

I underlined a couple of the more outrageous portions of this landmark back-pedal.  In his need to protect his friends and the TMF’s integrity, Myriads is basically saying that this thread had no topic.  How can a thread have no topic?  According to Jeff, even Bella’s thread which was a cartoon image and nothing more, had a topic that he insisted I was derailing.

This whimsical manipulation of the rules is something I fully expect from a self-serving loser like MTP Jeff, but to see it from Myriads is sadly disappointing.  He generally holds himself to a much higher standard.  I can only hope this is a one time departure and not a new trend on his part.

I’ve known her for years.  Bella was active on the pre-TMF community of alt.multimedia.tk (mostly referred to these days as “AMT”) ten years ago.  I actually liked her back then and for several years after.  I don’t know where she’s from originally but for the last several years she’s lived in Dublin, Ohio – a suburb of Columbus.  Anybody who’s been to one of her self-hosted birthday parties (seriously, who DOES that?!) can verify.

My friendship with Bella took a nose dive in 2006 when I took a stand against the glorification of violence against women being passed off as consensual S&M play, and later that year plummeted further when I questioned the inherent conflict of philosophy when married people engage in polyamory.  In both instances Bella arrived in my thread to present herself as an expert in each of these fields, and seemed somewhat irate that I didn’t already regard her so.  At some point I will likely cover those threads in detail, but for now, suffice to say I got a birds-eye view of Bella’s true personality.

One thing about which Bella has gone on record more than once to show extreme disapproval would be the use of multiple identities AKA “sock puppets.”  Ever since I came clean about my own multiple identities, Bella has always acted like this was the most dishonest thing imaginable.  Here’s an example:

Crystal Light
And some men fear confrontation

BellaRisa
True. And some tend to sneak around behind the scenes like little wet rats, getting others to be confrontational for them in various threads via false screen names or pulling other people's strings like puppets. Cowardly and emasculating and pitiful, and not very good for the forum, but even I admit it can make things 'interesting'

“Cowardly, emasculating, and pitiful,” she says.  Because she is so above that sort of thing. 

Or is she?

Somebody has been leaving comments on this very blog, using the names of a couple of my alternate TMF identities: Jackpot$ and Johnny Ticklish.  Now, that’s all fair game, as far as I’m concerned, but it does beg the question:  What point is this individual trying to make?  To discredit me for using other names besides drew70 on the TMF?  Not much point there, since I already publically came clean about them quite some time ago.

One of the benefits of being this blog’s administrator is that I can see the IP address of anybody who leaves a comment.  I normally would not out the IP address of this blog’s commenter's, but this case demands an exception.

Consider these blog comments, all from the same IP address:

jackpot$ – IP address: 99.7.250.77
Keep blogging. The more you blog the more people see how weird and obsessive you are and that TMF was right about you. even the people who were sad about your ban have changed theyre minds since this blog got noticed. Keep writing and getting laughed at

johnny ticklish – IP address: 99.7.250.77
u r in your 50s bro, this much about a fetish board is just crazy.

tickles4tasks – IP address: 99.7.250.77
You just caused a TT thread to be closed with your badmouthing the TMF. Just like your I Got Banned thread from before. But you don't have the balls to cry censorship on that forum do you because if you leave TT you will have nowhere to go.

Note these first three are somewhat confrontational.  But then our would be mistress of disguise changes strategies and offers a less antagonistic pretense of concern and being “on my side.”

Gigglermakr476 – IP address: 99.7.250.77
I don't think you're crazy, if dicks banned me for bein myself I would blog too! But this is a lot of blogs and work about a fetish site and that is a little weird. The assholes who banned you still have a lot of control over you because you think about them so much. You say you have many other places to go but the size of this blog says you don't to people. After you expose all the dicks I hope you can move on with your life one day so they do not win.

This façade of concern for my well-being quickly goes sour when I assure her that I can both blog AND move on with my life.  Clearly she found this unacceptable and dropped all pretense of camaraderie

Gigglermakr476 – IP address: 99.7.250.77
You are still writing about it nine months later. You still go onto that site and come here to say things about it. You have not moved on at all.

drew70
LOL. Don't be silly. Of course I've moved on. First I talked about my temporary ban last year.

Then I moved on to the events over the summer and fall of 2008 leading up to my permanent ban.

Then I moved on and talked about the the very conflict in the middle of which I was banned.

Then I moved on to the aftermath of my ban, talking about people's various reactions to it.

Now I'm moving on to more current threads.

You, on the other hand clearly are not moving on. You're stuck on this whole "moving on" argument with me. You really need to get past that so that you and I can move on to better discussions.

And looking around, I see you are starting to post as Jackpot$ again. I'm flattered you like my alternate TMF handles so much, though. I agree they are most cool.

So tell me. What's your opinion of Bella Risa? You know who I'm talking about, don't you? Self-important condescending bitch who holds a gathering each year in Dublin, OH?

Interestingly, as soon as I mention the name Bella Risa and her home town of Dublin OH, these blog comments screech to an abrupt halt.  I’ve seen no further comments from that IP address.  Does that prove this individual is Bella herself?  Certainly not.  The proof came when I traced the IP address.

WhatIsMyIPAdress.com

Details for IP Address: 99.7.250.77

Geo-Location Information

Country:  United States

State/Region:  OH

City:  Dublin

Well look at that.  Dublin, OH. Okay, so it’s not actually proof, but what are the chances that somebody else from Bella’s town has been a member of the TMF long enough to know my history, AND happens to share Bella’s disdain towards me? 

Now, that I think about it, another poster on this blog mentioned my “dishonesty” with regards to my multiple TMF identities.

Oreally – IP Address 75.185.75.193
You do plan to blog about your fake names and dishonesty, right?

drew70
Fake names? Yes, it's true. My name really isn't drew70. That name is a fake. My apologies for having been "dishonest" about that, Ms. Oreally.

But if you're referring to me having and using MULTIPLE fake names within a thread to bolster support for an ongoing argument, then stay tuned. It's coming.

In the meantime, check out this thread.

http://www.ticklingforum.com/showthread.php?p=1276172#post1276172

That's the one where I publically came clean about my multiple personalities.

Why don't you come clean and tell me what your TMF Identity is? Oooh, not comfortable doing that, are we? Tsk Tsk. Such dishonesty.

 

Oreally – IP Address 75.185.75.193
You and your friends already stalk 20 yr old girls and send them old-man stalker emails to frighten them, you have enough 'names' to keep you busy. But keep up with this, every entry shows people how right the TMF staff was to ban you and how demented and obsessed you are with the online world and women 30 yrs your junior

 

Seems to be pretty much the same sentiment as our Dublin OH poster.  Let’s see where this IP address traces to.

utrace

ISP:  Road Runner

Country:  United States

State/Region:  OH

City:  Dublin

Well look at that!  Dublin, OH yet again.  Seems Bella tried to cover her trail by switching ISP's, but both point to the same Ohio suburb.

Now understand me here, people.  I'm not dogging on Bella for doing the multiple ID thing.  I've done it myself plenty of times.  It can be an effective tool as long as nobody looks too closely. 

The thing about which I'm busting on Bella is that when it was made known I was using multiple ID's, she was so indignant.  She tried to convince Jeff and the other mods that that alone warranted a permanent ban, because it was such a "dispicable" thing to do, and oh so dishonest.

And here she is, doing the very thing she denounced as reprehensible. 

Bella, you win this month's TMF Hypocrit of the Month Award!

Congratulations!

Well, it seems that the TMF’s problems weren’t solved by drew70’s departure after all.  It’s been all of 9 months now and they have more squabbling, backbiting, and posturing than ever before, it seems. 

For example, this thread posted by Knot Amewzed in which he reaches out to the community about his marital problems.  It’s called Changes in my life: looking for emotional support.  (Note: this thread has been since deleted, so the link won't work.)

Now…I’ve never really liked this guy although he and I haven’t had any conflict.  He just seems to me to be too entrenched in the clique mentality, of which (by the way) we’ll see a lot in this thread.  I’ve also witnessed some heavy duty white-knighting on his part.

When I first read his opening post, I felt considerable compassion for his situation, along with a sincere hope that he gets it resolved with minimal pain on both sides.

Knot Amewzed
I can't help, but to feel heartbroken over the recent events in my life. I have been a part of the TMF community since 2001-02, under several names. My wife, then girlfriend, knew of my fetish and she was in somewhat of an acceptance to it. I took a few years off of serious activity and just continued to lurk the forum. We have met a few couples and a few people before we got married, leading me to believe that she was starting to get into it. With her permission, I posted many videos of me tickling her under the names Jason Diaz and Jenn Sevarino in the video clip section. This further increased my hopes that she was evolving into compatibility of my tickling fetish.

We got married in September of 2007. We continued to make a few videos, but decided to take some time off; as well as I from the TMF. In October of 2008, we decided to host a small gathering where 10 people showed up. I feel that we all had a great time, but couldn't help noticing that my wife kept removing herself from the environment. Subsequently, she interrogated me on my enjoyment of the party. She kept asking me why I didn't throw the girls off of me when they were tickling me. She also drilled me on my participation with the other couples. Long and the short, she seemed to be distancing herself from the fetish and showing less support for my involvement.

My daughter was born in April of this year. I spent nearly 6 months away from the TMF to prepare for the baby and show my allegiance to my wife. Last month I started becoming active again. My wife saw me on the forum a few weeks ago and stated, "You are getting into that shit again?". I was speechless and told her that I was never away from it; just inactive. Since then, I have been given an ultimatum. Either I leave the TMF or she leaves me. She has threatened to tell my entire family of my fetish; stating that they will disown me. In addition, she states that her friends and family think that I am wrong for being a part of a fetish community. I expressed to her that I am who I am and I cannot change that. This has been extremely emotional for me; I am not confused, just emotional. I know that someone who wants me to change is not out for my best interests.

I would never cheat on her, never intend to hurt her, and will never forget her for she was my best friend and the mother of my child. I will love her to death and seeing myself without her brings me to tears. I have made my decision to stick around and continue to be a part of the TMF. I need you guys more than ever right now. Thank you all for your support.

For a while, everything was more or less cool.  People both in and out of The Clique offered support, concern, advice, and opinion.  Then one guy offered an opinion that differed radically from the standard “Your fetish comes first!” mentality that generally pervades such threads.

Fangz
If you just had a daughter you accepted a boatload of responsibilities and not all of them are gonna be fair. This request by your wife is indeed unreasonable but despite that if you can't work it out or get her to change her mind than you have to give in to her demands. Not for her but for your new daughter. Can you imagine being in court and having the judge hear that you didn't give up an internet fetish forum for your wife and child? Shit, you'd be lucky if you didn't become a tabloid headline! Look it sucks I know but welcome to Life 101. If any other unreasonable demands follow then the situation is different but for now you're a father and you have to put your daughter first. Don't worry though Knot, I think life sucks for everyone just in different ways. Be well my friend.

Skipadeedoodah
Is there some reason you have to be half of a couple to be a good father? Staying together for the sake of the children is something that lots of couples try, but few are successful. How is it better for the child if her parents are living in the same house, but are fighting and miserable? How is it better for her if the one relationship she looks to as a guide for what relationships are supposed to be isn't a healthy or nurturing one?

Here’s my problem with this.  The Skipper is assuming that if they stay together they will be “fighting and miserable.”  She can’t know that.  As far as any of us know, this is the only issue that stands between them.  If he decides to forsake the TMF and work on his marriage and family, who’s to say they don’t have as much a shot at happiness as the next couple?

Skipadeedoodah

I've been in a house where parents don't get along. It's a nightmare. Children are not a reason to stay together. They are, without a doubt, a reason to give it a hell of a shot, but once it's done it's done, and accepting that IS in the best interest of the child.

This is a big part of what I find wrong with society today.  It seems like anything that gets in the way of having fun is a bad thing and therefore disposable.  Unwanted pregnancy?  Get an abortion.  Wife not on board with your tickling forum participation?  Get a divorce. 

I’m not saying what Knot should do, one way or the other.  I know what I would do, but such decisions are up to the people involved.  The Skipper seems to feel justified in setting Knot’s priorities, which I find rather presumptuous.

Skipadeedoodah

Being yourself and using your personality, your quirks and your flaws does not diminish your ability to be a parent, it only enhances it.

This coming from a very young woman who’s never been a parent.  Yet suddenly she’s an expert on the topic. 

Other people add their own opinions.  Some agreed with the Skipper that he should tell his wife to pound sand.  Others felt he was better off as a husband and father to drop the TMF since it was a source of contention between them.

This debate went on for a while.  Then CrystalLight chimes in.

CrystalLight
I don't really think this is a fucking debate. The guy's looking for support, not posts broken down to the very last sentence and then picked apart.

Well Joana, the forum is General DISCUSSION.  Regardless of what Knot specifically requested, debate is always welcome by default.  Nobody needs to be given anybody’s permission, certainly not yours.

Now the discussion becomes centered around whether or not opinions are welcome.  The Cliquers all adopt a unified posture that since Knot asked for support, there was an implied embargo on advice and opinions.

MrMacphisto
Um... I'm not sure if anyone else has said this, but uh... I'd actually go the opposite way. I understand what you're saying, but you gotta fix what you have in the real world.

Skipadeedoodah
I'm pretty sure that Jeff (Knot) made it clear that he's made his decision. He needs support..not advice, suggestions, or a bunch of "you should...you need to...if I were you".

MrMacphisto
Geez... what are you, the grammar nazi? I wasn't even trying to be critical.

meangry
It's not like one person is coming into this thread to troll it up.

It's a decision making process which quite a few people are genuinely puzzled about. He might be looking for emotional support, but he's also going to have some people within this community looking at this and not approving of it.

You open up your private life on a public forum and it all goes out the window.

venray
No one said anything about being nasty....just that the OP asked for support, not advice...

Seems fairly simple to comprehend......

meangry
Well, that's not how the world works.

Indeed it’s not.  Venray and company seem to feel that a person can air all this dirty laundry and expect to hear nothing but supportive agreement.  If that’s what Knot truly wanted he should have been completely vague.  “Guys, I’m going through some serious issues with my wife, and I really need some friends right about now.”  That would have guaranteed no dissenting opinions because nobody would know specifically what’s going on.

But instead, he posts all the lurid details of their disagreement.  It’s ludicrous to expect people to hold back opinions, whether in agreement or otherwise; especially on a DISCUSSION forum.

But evidently this simple concept is lost on the cliquers.

CrystalLight
Regardless of the amount of advice that was given, whether good or bad, the OP requested the type of replies he was hoping for.

Of course we're going to have threads that branch out into alternative topics, but if they stray too much away from the OP's request, couldn't a new thread be created based on the building discussion?

Sure it could, but let’s not pretend such a thing is mandatory or even obligatory.  Knot can request the type of answers all he wants but there will always be people who’ll tell him what they really think.  As long as it’s done respectfully, it’s perfectly acceptable.

Neither CrystalLight nor Venray nor the Skipper have any business telling people how to respond to this thread.  I think most people were able to see that.

unclebill
Meangry has obviously become the whipping boy and the 2009 version of drew 70 by the "in crowd"of the forum, but I got news for for the TMF bullies..... he`s hit the nail on the head with his comments and has brought out some great points throughout this thread. Knot made the decision to air out his dirty laundry in a public forum. I personally would have kept this private, but he`s a grown man. Members have every right in the world to express their opinion in hopes of helping him and his wife out. Simply slapping him on the back and giving out atta boys isn`t going to help anybody. Many of us speak from experience from being involved in a failed marriage. Some realy solid advice has been offered, and hopefully will be of help. No one has trolled in this entire thread. Stop telling us what we can post.

Well said, Bill.  These cliquers are more concerned with keeping their friend on the forum than for the well-being of his family.  This is what I was referring to as the "Your fetish comes first" mentality.  Their message is clear:  Hey, divorce and child custody battles aren't so bad as long as you can continue to browse the TMF and go to gatherings.

BrightEyes1082
The topic here is support. Knot posted this for support. It's even in the subject line. He didn't ask us if we think what he's doing is right.  He made a tough decision, and is asking the community for support. If you think he's wrong (I'm not saying I think he's right), and you have  no support to offer, then whatever you have to say does not belong in this thread.

Oh please.  The thread title also contained the words "Changes in my life," which is also part of the topic as are the ugly details that comprise his opening post.  You only WANT to limit the topic to be support because Knot's your friend, and he's part of the gang.  You also seem to want to define "support" as agreeing with his decision and telling him he did the right thing.

Moreover, it's not like Bill, Tony, Mac and the others were flaming the guy.  They were giving good heartfelt advice.  Like it or not, that is also support.  In fact, nearly all who disagreed with Knot's decision still offered support. 

BrightEyes1082
Feel free to start a new thread "I think Knot made the wrong choice." But don't come in here judging him because he didn't do what you might have done. And for the record, I'm not referring only to you, Bill. I'm referring to anyone here who has derailed the topic. This is completely an inappropriate place to play martyr of the "in crowd."

TonyInMyThroat
No, what we’ve got here are too many ensigns on the thread steering committee.

This gets my vote for THE best line in the entire thread. 

TonyInMyThroat
Are you suggesting that dvnc was out of line for offering some conjecture & analysis with his message of support? Sometimes offering sound advice, sharing similar experiences, and constructive criticism coincide with a support system. As the moderator suggested, a diversity of thought does not an off topic post make.

It's good to finally see people calling out The Clique for their favoritistic behavior.  Tony makes a good point.  DVNC offered more lengthy advice and opinion than anybody else in the entire thread.  But of course, he's one of their own, not to mention a moderator, so he gets a free pass. 

Such is life on the TMF.

As the thread "progressed," Knot and the Skipper became increasingly frustrated as people continued to give well-thought-out advice instead of just blind support.  In total humiliation, Knot begged the forum administration to delete the thread. 

As I said at the beginning of this entry, I was sympathetic to Knot's situation.  By the end of the thread, I had changed my mind.  The guy is a self-absorbed hound-dog, flirting with the Skipper and with the babes of the forum, while trying to justify it by describing himself as "an extremely social person."  I feel sad for his wife and child.

Here are some more recent comments to some of the blog entries.  I can't promise a response to all of them, but if you really want one and don't see it, email me at drew70blog@gmail.com.

I wanted to elaborate on a comment left on this blog by Nemesis on 8/11/2009.  She goes by the name ticklingnemesis on the TMF.  You may remember her as one of the two people besides myself who challenged MTP Jeff's blatant display of favoritism toward Bella with regards to the cartoon.

Though I've already responded in the comments section, I decided her comments warranted some closer attention and explanation on my part.

Nemesis
The venom that pours off of these blog posts astounds me.

I agree it's cause for concern.  I'm generally not a bitter person by nature.  People who know me regard me as one of the most laid back people they know.  But a continuous pattern of unfair treatment by those in authority tends to rub me the wrong way.  For years I've had to deal with posts of mine being deleted, temporary bans with little to no explanation.  No matter how hard I tried to preclude such actions they kept occurring with greater frequency.  You can't begin to imagine how frustrating that is.

And on the TMF, there's no outlet for such frustration.  I'm expected to just suck it up, and that's exactly what I did.  For years.  Finally, when I was temporarily banned in June of last year, my patience gave out.  I started this blog, so I could vent, and so that anybody who was actually interested in hearing my side of the story could have that opportunity.

Nemesis
Do you not accept any responsibility for your actions and the problems you caused on TMF?

If I had been caught in a violation and it was shown to me, I would absolutely take responsibility for it.  I would accept whatever judgement they deemed appropriate, because by participating at the TMF, we agree to a standard of behavior, which I consistently kept throughout my seven-year tenure.  Whenever Myriads took action against me, I would ask him, "Show me where I've violated the rules," and he couldn't do it.

And let's be honest.  You talk about "problems" I caused at the TMF, then later you say you never had any problems with me while I was there.  So pardon me if I wonder exactly to what "problems" you are referring. 

Nemesis
I don't always agree with the things Jeff has done on TMF or the rulings he's cast, but he did everyone a favor when he banned you.

I don't believe you are qualified to speak on behalf of everyone.  I can assure you that more than a few people were appalled.  Nemesis, you were there, in that thread, where Jeff showed blatant favoritism and hypocrisy. You saw him call me an asshole and call jim66e a social retard.  Yet the best you can come up with is "I don't always agree with the things Jeff has done"?

You know as well as I do the man has no business holding any kind of community leadership position.  And yet you're more appalled at me using my own blog to vent my own feelings than you are at Jeff for breaking virtually every rule he demands everybody else follow.

Nemesis
I never had a problem with you when you were there, but this blog has really opened my eyes to the kind of person you are.

I would respectfully ask you to consider the possibility that your eyes aren't quite as open as you seem to think.  I suspect you were angered at my reference to Bugman, whom I remember was close to you.  I referred to him as a "two-faced motherfucker."  That's extremely harsh, I know, but it's born out of a very painful betrayal.  While I was there, Bugman and I got along great, and I considered him a friend.  He and I are close in age, and used to talk at length about how it was "back in the day."  I met him at two different NEST gatherings, and we shook hands and talked.

Imagine my surprise just after I was shown the door to read Bugman posting about how tolerant Jeff was for letting drew70 stay as long as he did.  He made a couple of such comments about me.  I'm not without feelings, nemesis.  That hurt.  I would never in a million years have considered doing that to him.  Bugman stabbed me in the back when I was most vulnerable.  I know he's your friend and I respect that, but you can't reasonably expect me to react in a completely civilized manner to a transgression of that magnitude.

Nemesis
To the people who reads this blog, remember there are always two sides to a story and you're only reading only one side of it.

I'm not trying to be disrespectful here, but the more I read your comments, the less convinced I am that you've read any significant portion of this blog.  Every post I've covered, I've included links to the original TMF thread.  I've quoted the comments of my opponents word for word.  If anybody suspects I'm misrepresenting somebody, they are free to click on the links and see for themselves.  Anybody who disagrees with my comments here are free to offer counterpoints. 

This is my blog.  It was created for the purpose of presenting my side of the story.  When Jeff posted the "What happened with drew70" thread, I didn't see you complaining that he was only giving one side of the story.  He took great effort to ensure I had no opportunity to present a defense.  Do you honestly think you're being fair cutting him so much slack, while villifying me? 

Recap:  In the thread in which Jeff announced the permanent ban of drew70, there was a wide variety of responses of which we've taken a look at some in the previous blog entry.  My commentary was admittedly harsher than normal, but in my opinion it was well deserved.  Some of these two-faced motherfuckers (Bugman, I hope you're reading this) had ample opportunity to bring any grievances to me.  But no, they pretended to be my friend while I was there, then stabbed me in the back on my way out.

Here is a post from one of the few younger guys I've always thought had a good head on his shoulders. 

theshire
It's a real shame to me. I always liked Drew; I read very little in his posts that I ever disagreed with, and always admired his willingness to stick with what he believed in no matter the shit that was thrown his way.

Drew has on many occasions said what I was thinking and yet didn't take the time to say. In my opinion, he should not have been banned, and it is clear that anyone who has ever defended him has suddenly become a target for the mods, if not by physical action then by the kind of vitriol and abuse that they themselves would not tolerate from anyone else. I am sad to see him go, and disagree with the decision, but everyone has to move on now. It's just a shame that the issues he raised - which, in my opinion, were genuine causes for concern - will now continue unchallenged. I know a few people who have pretty much abandoned the TMF because they essentially agree with Drew on certain things, although, largely due to the institutionally sanctioned intimidation of certain members, they have not said so in public.

That said, I am disappointed in Drew for the whole fake identity thing. He is so much more mature than that.

Shire, you are a class act, sir.  Your words ring true.  The corruption of the TMF runs deep, like an insidious cancer that festers under the highly polished surface.

primetime
I never really crossed paths with Drew, but I have seen some of his posts and yes, in America, we have the Right of Free Speech, but even with that right, we can't yell "I'm going to kill the President!" without getting in trouble. Drew got himself banned. It wasn't the Mods that were out to get him. It was Drew that did his own self in through his ego.

Well I'd sure like to know what drugs you are on, prime, because I never said anything close to "I'm going to kill the President!"  If you want to ingratiate yourself to Jeff, fine.  But at least do it in a way that can at least pass for something close to sincerity.

primetime
I read his post on Tickle Theater and what stood out to me was that he even admitted he was banned before for 30 days.

Of course I admitted it.  Why would I not?  People need to know what a vindictive thug MTP Jeff is, and the extent to which he takes delight in throwing his weight around.

primetime
Well damn. If you were banned before, why on Earth would you continue to do the same type of behavior that will get you banned again? This doesn't make sense.

Why should I change my behavior if it already conforms to the posted rules of conduct?  Think about it.  Jeff banned a guy that Jeff himself admits commited no violations of conduct.  He did it based not on any system of justice but rather to appease his friends who didn't think I was cool enough to be a TMF member.  It just doesn't get any more corrupt than that.

In short primetime, I didn't change my behavior because it wasn't my behavior that needed to change.

Now we come to something interesting here. 

theshire
The point I was making in my earlier post about mod intimidation was not that anyone who disagrees with them is banned. Obviously that is not the case. My point was that people who have dissenting views are made to feel dirty and unwelcome by the attitudes of other members; most other participants in the discussion gang up on them, including moderators, and it is clear that certain mods have "special friends" who will never be warned or chastised regardless of how much of a nuisance they are. It not only makes some people afraid to speak up, but has actually turned people totally away from the forum because they - gasp - agreed with Drew and hated the way the forum was going. So for them, contrary to the assertions of the mods, their experience of belonging to the TMF community, which they had once enjoyed, WAS ruined beyond redemption.

MTP Jeff
I just had to clean up about a dozen posts of people sniping at each other. Please keep this at the level of a discussion or debate and don't start directly going at each other.

theshire
it is clear that certain mods have "special friends" who will never be warned or chastised regardless of how much of a nuisance they are.

I want to address this point directly, because you could not be more wrong about this. We never publically chastise anyone for the rules that they break in threads, or at least we try not to. Drew became an exception because he was constantly calling me out in public, until I reached the point that I felt by not addressing his comments publically, I was letting people get the impression that he was somehow right.

But in 99% of cases, we take things private and discuss them only with the person involved. So you, and anyone else, has no idea how many times our friends hear from us. You're making a huge leap with nothing to support it.

The real truth is that our friends get it from us the worst. When it's a member that we don't know, we generally try to be on our best and most patient behavior. With a friend, we're, or at least I am, a lot more likely to just say "Hey, what the hell is wrong with you, why are you making my life difficult by doing this when I know perfectly well that you know better?"

A much more direct conversation is likely to take place, and a lot more guilt is likely to be put on the person who screwed up. Being our friend doesn't make you less likely to get chewed out, it makes you more likely.

Yes, I am just so sure that Jeff's good friend Bell Risa got so chewed out for posting that cartoon image of a Kindergarten girl in dominatrix attire licking a riding crop while a simian wearing briefs was hanging by his wrists chained to the wall behind her.  The amount of bullshit that comes from Jeff's keyboard on a weekly basis could fertilize the state of Kansas easily.

theshire
Oh, rubbish, Jeff; you are flat-out lying. You have just removed a bunch of posts, you claim, because people were sniping at each other. But conspicuously omitted from this clean-up was Euphoricy's post in which she referred to me as a "shit-stirrer", "ignorant", "an ill-informed idiot", and accused me of "talking out of my ass". Meanwhile, MY post in which I responded to this and called on the mods to condemn it has been deleted. You have accused me of inaccuracy, proved my point and then lied about it, all in the same post.

Drew, I'm afraid, was right about more than one thing.

MTP Jeff
You're right, I missed that one because I was cleaning up so much at once.

theshire
Willfully. It is a strange system of cleaning up when you read my post thoroughly enough to decide it should be deleted but not thoroughly enough to notice the big chunk of deletable material quoted in the same post.

Shire, this is why TMF stands for Too Much Favoritism.  Kudos for catching Jeff in the act, redhanded.

MTP Jeff
I had to read and examine every post in this increasingly long thread, and by the sixth or seventh page, I admit I was skimming and looking for standout posts that obviously contained flames. Yours was short and it was easy to see that it was flame, so as I was moving down the list of posts, I clicked it to be included in what I was doing. As soon as you pointed out what I had missed, I fixed it, I don't know what more than that you could possibly want from me.

An early retirement comes to mind.

Who does Jeff think he's kidding, here?  It's his own decision to impose censorship on us.  It's not like he's required by law to do it.  So why is he acting like it's some kind of chore or burden?  It's pretty clear he loves doing it.  That's why it's Jeff we almost exclusively see moderating and censoring people's comments all over the forum instead of the five or six moderators on staff for this purpose.

MTP Jeff
But you're obviously prepared to assign me nothing but bad motives, and accept none of my explanations, so go right ahead and believe what you want.

Well Jeff, it's your own fault if this particular shoe fits like a glove.  You lie about so many things and then wonder why your credibility is shot.

When MTP Jeff posted a thread to rationalize banning a seven-year veteran contributer, namely me, many simply took his word for the things he said, giving little to no thought to their validity.  Without being candid, some of these guys had their head so far up Jeff's ass, Jeff might as well have been explaining why he had to murder his mother.  It wouldn't have made any difference.  They'd still have told him he was only human and console him for being "forced into" such a "difficult decision."  LOL.

Others were shocked, but since nobody was there to refute Jeff's claims, they reluctantly bought it.  And then there were those precious few who actually had the courage to speak out against the action.  Of course, they were doomed as the clique descended on them like the wrath of God.  Actually it was probably more like the wrath of Kahn as they hissed their bitter vitriol.

I thought we could take a look at some of the responses to Jeff's Kangaroo Court trial of drew70.

Euphoricy
You might get some shit for it, but I honestly believe you had no choice. I support your decisions and respect you for taking the time to explain to your members the reasons why in such detail and with such grace.

LOL. Makes one wonder if she even read Jeff's post.  It's beyond me how people can sit there and say he had no choice when it was clearly a knee-jerk reaction.  Euphoricy might be easy on the eyes, but her brains are between her legs.

Slacker2114
You did what you had to do. In the end, it's better for the forum and the community at large here. I've never envied your or the mod's duties around here. And anyone with half a brain would realize that if you were truly being a dick about it, you would have kicked him long ago.

Don't worry Jeff. The people who really care about the forum will stand behind your decision on this. Don't let it bother you.

Yeah, Jeff you poor guy.  Here, let me just felate you, and cheer you up a little.  Omnomnom! 

Musicroxmysox
Jeff thank you for explaining this situation. I never had a run in with Drew, but it is unfortunate that he caused his own demise. You did what you had to do because Drew did this to himself. Maybe some day he will realize that.

Don't hold your breath, sweetheart.  What's interesting is the number of people who say they never had a problem with me, yet still go along with Jeff's decision.

Angel of Darkness
I liked Drew, aside from his trolling tendencies. He was nice to me...

JPie
As an early forum member and someone who knew Drew before this forum I am sad for him that he could not see what he was doing, I have had many nice conversations with Drew...

Mitchell
I always had a very mixed relationship with Drew over the years. At some times, I considered him very intelligent and interesting to talk to...

Giantfan121262
I am sorry to see this happen, because I always liked Drew from the interaction we had...

Homer28
I personally did not have any run ins with drew...

Dr. Vollin
I'm like Homer in regards to this; never had any personal run-ins with drew70...

Adam
This is really unfortunate. Personally, I'd never had an issue with Drew. He treated me respectfully and I did the same in return...

MrMacphisto
Still, if Drew is reading this, I'd like him to know that I've never truly had a problem with him and that I'm sad to see him go.

Right back at you, Mac.  Though we disagree politically, I've never required people to agree with me.  You've always been cool in my book.

These are all regular posters who didn't have problems with me.  Quite a few considering the picture Jeff paints of me.  If I was half the troll Jeff describes, how is it there are so many people that "never had a run-in with drew70"?  The answer is that the vast majority of the active TMF membership had no problem with me.  But as we all know, the squeaky wheels get the grease, and Bella Risa's capacity for endless bitching knows no bounds.

Now we come to something rare and special.  It almost brought a tear to my eye. Mostly because I barely know this woman.  She'd pm'd me once to tell me she loves what I do on the forum.  But check out how spot on she was with this response.

Ticklshchic03
I am going to post the PM I sent to Jeff because it sums up my feelings the best.

"As a member of this forum for 4 years, granted not active in the community, I think you made a choice that only proved his point. Disagreeing with a mod, especially you, only gets you banned.

I respected you so much for letting him argue his point time and time again. In every community, opposing opinions are needed. I often agree with what he says but I feared, as you have now proven, that saying so would only lead to a bad reputation and a banning. Drew spoke up and you took is personally like the other people on this forum normally do. You gave into the pressure from your friends and I feel that by banning drew, you have done damage to this forum that you cannot undo. You used your mod powers to shut someone up whom you didn't like and because of that no one will speak up for fear of banning. While you may have stopped your opposition, you have hurt this community and the feeling that we can speak our minds. No post about Drew can change what you have done and that makes me sadder than anything else I've seen on this board."

Jeff Responded:
"Well, I'm sorry you feel that way. But he got banned for being a troll, not disagreeing with me. Plenty of people disagree with me, some of them very specifically, including you in fact in that binky thread, and none of them are getting banned."

To which I responded:

"An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the intention of provoking other users into an emotional response[1] or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.[2]

He has had LOADS of posts that were not inflammatory. Sir, you are a bully. If you read my response it was that while Helena should turn off her sigs, she has every right to post. You got defensive of your friends and honestly, I think that makes you a bad admin. I have never felt that way about you until this point. You chose to see only one side and not think about it form her side when both need to be considered. You own this forum, I will always respect you right to ban whomever you want because this place is yours and you can no longer say that it belongs to this community. If you felt that her post as inappropriate, then you should've deleted it but you let it go on because you felt your friends were personally attacked when they were not. She was stating her opinion.

You got your wish and it'll be a long time before anyone speaks anything other than what you want to hear."

I respected Drew for being able to disagree and he took alot of flack for it. I tend to agree with the majority of the things he said but I didn't want to be ostrocized or banned from the community because someone like Jeff who has done such amazing things would eventually give into his emotions rather than reason. I see I was right.

Everyone, please remember you're only seeing the posts that Jeff wants you to see. Drew is not here to defend himself. Don't judge Drew on what Jeff has posted, go through and look for yourselves if you wanna form your own opinion.

She'll never know how much this meant to me.  On the heals of getting kicked out of my favorite forum and all manner of people I used to hang with offering solice not to me, but to Jeff even after his unspeakable abuses of power and acts of favoritism...FINALLY, one lone woman whom I barely knew at all had the courage to stand up and denounce Jeff's thuggish behavior for what it was.  Of course, no good deed goes unpunished on the TMF.  The clique, in typical gangland fashion had to respond. 

Euphoricy
Drew "defended" himself plenty of times. Most of the time you could see right through his bullshit "innocent" act. Apparently you're one of the few who bought it.

Or maybe it's you Gin - buying Jeff's bullshit "I'm just trying to do what's best for the forum" act - an act that Ticklshchic saw through.  Forgive my saying so, but you don't strike me as the most perceptive young woman on the TMF.  Perhaps if you spent more of your waking hours in a vertical position, you'd have a little better grasp of the obvious.

Euphoricy

Jeff isn't a bully. I really don't see how you can justify saying that, either.

Well then, allow me to demonstrate.

MTP Jeff  09/07/06 
Seriously, Drew, shut the fuck up.

MTP Jeff  11/12/08 
If rules were rules you'd have been banned a long time ago, be glad that we're flexible enough to interpret things on a case by case basis.

Now I'm going to piss you off even more by declaring this off-topic discussion over.

MTP Jeff  11/26/08 
No you aren't, and no you don't, and if you drag your personal bullshit into this thread, you're going to be excluded from it.

MTP Jeff  11/13/08 
I was specifically talking about you, you irredeemable, unrelenting, asshole. You've been trouble on this forum since the first day you joined it, and the fact that you don't want this to be about your behavior doesn't make it so.

This doesn't even include the private stuff he's sent me. I'm going to tell you something Euphoricy, and this goes to Slacker and every other moron stupid enough to buy into Jeff's "Oh I feel so bad about this" crap.

Ten brain orders from the Wizard of Oz himself wouldn't be enough to catapult any one of you into any detectable IQ. Pull your heads out of your asses long enough to look with hopeless dispair at your collective idiocy.

Jeff has conned you into believing that he's done you all this huge favor of providing the TMF out of the goodness of his heart, and that you owe him an endless debt of gratitude.  HELLOOO!  This is a BUSINESS!  It's how he makes money to earn a living.  I keep hearing that the TMF is Jeff's "house" and that we should all be grateful for his "gracious invitation" to those who are "privileged" to be members.  It's crap, I tell you.  The TMF is a business, a service provider, taking advantage of a growing market. 

"But Drew," you say.  "How can you say that when the TMF is free?!"

Have any one of you ever felt such gratitude towards the local TV and radio stations that provide FREE entertainment over the airwaves?  No?  Why not?  Because you know that the real reason they do it is to provide a venue by which advertisers can reach a marketable customer base.  That's how they earn a living.  Why should we feel grateful when we know that WE'RE the ones doing THEM the favor by watching their TV shows, listening to their radio programs, improving their ratings?  We've learned that though there's no money required of us to particiapte, we DO pay for these services in another way, by tolerating the commercial advertisements that inundate every program. 

The TMF operates on the exact same principal.  It has the same purpose and mission:  To provide an entertainment venue by which advertisers can target a customer base to market their tickling media.  Jeff gets considerable monetary compensation from every advertisement we see cluttering every page on the TMF.  Don't misunderstand me.  There's nothing wrong or dishonorable with making a living this way.  What's wrong and dishonorable is this deception that this is all being done for us magnanimously, because Jeff is just that kind of swell guy.  

It is YOU who do Jeff the favor by participating in the TMF, not vice versa.  Jeff is a service provider and YOU as his clientele have every right (and I daresay every responsibility) to hold him accountable for his atrocious demeanor, abuses of power, and manipulation of the system to earn favor with potential objects of his desire.  

He's playing many of you for fools.  I don't expect the brain-dead likes of Euphoricy, Slacker, and Bella to wake up and smell the coffee.  But the rest of you have options you've probably never taken the time to consider.  You don't have to settle for the likes of MTP Jeff as the custodial groundskeeper of your fine community.  You deserve a lot better. 

Euphoricy
This forum has hosted Drew's self-righteous little rants apparently since the very beginning.

Considering this post of yours along with your angry diatribe over the "thick headed" males on the TMF, I don't think you have room to talk about "self-righteous rants," sweetheart.  And let's be honest here.  You weren't here at the beginning, a fact which gave me and everybody else very little to rant about.

Euphoricy
The fact that Drew remained here for as long as he did is a testament to Jeff's leniency and fair admining.

Gin, you ignorant slut.  If it's a testament at all, it's a testament to years of hard work on my part, adapting to the oppressive monument to Big Brother that is the TMF's censorship policy, dispite Jeff's inability and unwillingness to clarify the rules and policies and moderate the forum according to them. 

It's a testament to the value of contributing music, art, comedy, and over 2000 scans, as opposed to your contribution of about a hundred pictures of you tongue-polishing your boyfriend's tonsils.  Remind me to tell you how attractive that's not.  It's no wonder that even eight months after my departure, the TMF is still in a sad state of affairs, with ignorant sluts like Gin hopping from bed to bed with the frequency of a Ham Radio.

Recap:  We've taken great amusement watching Jeff twist and squirm in his attempts to justify banning me.    To his horror, Jeff realized that throughout my TMF career, I carefully avoided posting anything damning.  He flip-flips between admitting he had no violation by which I could be fairly banned, then turning around and accusing me of harrassing and attacking people.  For now, we'll continue covering this colossal comedy of errors.

MTP Jeff
This thread, "BDSM kills yet another," is also a clear representation of Drew attempting to cause trouble. Even more evidence of that is this post made by Bella, bringing light to the fact that the article was dated back in February, further proving that drew took the trouble to search for this just to cause problems.

"Further proving"?  LOL.  Even assuming this actually was proof of my intent, Jeff can't hope to offer "further" proof until after he first offers some initial proof, which he has yet to do, even with Bella's "staggering revelation."  Though we've already covered this thread in another blog entry, I'll elaborate a little on how this came about.

While searching for BDSM-related news articles, I found and posted a legitimate article on a woman who died "during sado-masochistic sex."  And yes, I specifically looked for an article that underscored the potential dangers of some of the more violent forms of BDSM.  I had a point to make, and one that didn't target or insult anybody on the forum. 

Bella struts about as if she caught me in some huge nefarious act because she noticed the article was several months old.  She pronounces that because of the age of the article, it proves I (gasp) "searched" for it.  LOL.  Well no shit, Sherlock!  Of course I searched for it.  Why should I not?  People search for and post articles all the time.  That's some kind of "smoking gun," ya got there, Bella.  I hope you reported this to the authorities at Google for such gross abuse of their search engine.  hahaha.

The unanswered question is simply this:  How does proof that I searched for the article (something I never denied in the first place) translate to me "deliberatly causing trouble?"  The answer is, it doesn't.  That's an assumption that's completely unsupportable, yet both Bella and Jeff state it as though it were irrefutable fact.  This is the basis of Jeff's entire strategy thoughout this drumhead trial.  He quotes posts of mine (seemingly at random), then makes assumptions he can't support about hidden agendas and nefarious intentions behind them; assumptions that would be dismissed and likely jeered in any real courtroom.

Bella and DVNC were just pissed that I found an article that demonstrated what I've been saying for years.  Safety and Sanity are just as crucial to good BDSM as consensuality is.  They hate anybody that brings up unpleasant truths about some of the more violent aspects of BDSM, and so they respond the only way they know how, with their same old hackneyed rhetoric:  "Drew doesn't understand..." "Drew has issues..." "Drew is judging..." etc.  Even the most casual of observers can see it's just a smokescreen thrown out there in lieu of actually discussing the issue.  DVNC went as far as to demand an apology from me.  Damn, that reminds me.  I still haven't gotten around to it.

MTP Jeff
Here are a few more examples of Drew's trolling behaviors. None of them individually would merit someone being banned, but together they show the pattern of endless negativity and destructiveness that Drew has come to represent:

"Three more questions"

While this thread starts out harmless enough, there are clear undertones. Drew issues three seemingly innocent questions and has them swiftly handled by Myriads as seen here in his post. Now it begins to look a little shady when drew is quite obviously not content with the answers Myriads provides and pushes a bit further.

As seen in this quoted post here and even went as far as to re-post it 6 minutes later due to not receiving what he really desired. You'll see that here.

LOL.  I didn't even realize until just now that I had inadvertantly duplicated this response to Annie Hall.  In his desperation to pin anything he can on me, Jeff claims it was deliberate and that I was impatient for a response.  Puh-lease.  I've posted on the TMF for several years, more than enough to know that one has to wait a little longer than six minutes for a response.  My own personal policy is that if nobody responds to something I say, I move on. 

So why was my post duplicated?  Chalk it up to clumsiness on my part, or a slow internet connection.  I don't know.  But "Endless negativity and destructiveness?"  We're talking about posts on a forum, for God's sake.  Does Jeff actually believe anybody is going to buy into this melodrama?

Here's another thing.  Anybody actually reading that thread will see that Myriads was able to definitively answer only one of the three questions.  The one about Haribish.  So I reiterated the other two.  Jeff was upset at this thread because by posting it, I let him know that I knew the truth:  That Dave2112 did not voluntarily "step down" from his position of Senior Moderator, but was instead unceremoniously fired by Jeff; all at the orchestration of CrystalLight. 

Jeff hates for any of his decisions to be questioned at all, and particularly hates being publically questioned.  He even put a star next to my name in an attempt to shut me up.  It worked, too.  But the questions were out there, and I wasn't the only one wondering what the answers would be.

MTP Jeff
Here are clear examples of drew70's penchant for line walking. Not much to say to these threads, they speak for themselves:
"drew70's guide to successful TMF posting" Part One and Part Two

By all means, check them out.  It'll become clear why there's "not much to say."  There is literally nothing there that even approaches the boundaries of protocol.  Just me giving advice on successful posting, which everybody was free to consider or ignore.  Note that no names were mentioned.  Nobody was targeted.  Only behaviors.  There's no "line walking" here, and even if there was, so what?  The line that I walked wasn't drawn by me.  It was drawn by Jeff and Myriads.  If Jeff hated that line so much, he should have tried redrawing it in a different place.

MTP Jeff
And here's further proof that Drew's desire to create chaos knew no bounds, to the point where he will even have use the the Suggestions and feedback forum to stir up trouble. This thread was created and targeted at a forum member for making more sub forum suggestions then he deemed necessary. Also relevant to this is that this was posted on the very day that Drew returned from being suspended from the forum for trolling. His very first action was to go after someone because they make too many suggestions: "Limit on new sub forum suggestions"

Given the number of suggestions that CrystalLight was cranking out in her zeal to affect change at the TMF, it seemed like a reasonable suggestion.  Jeff never explains what is wrong with making that suggestion, nor does he explain how my doing so qualifies as an example to "create chaos."  It was one suggestion.  If anybody was making chaos on the suggestion forum, it was CrystalLight.  I merely suggested a remedy to it.  Again, I mentioned no names nor pointed at any specific person.  Jeff seems to be just grabbing posts at random in his desperation to rationalize his actions.

MTP Jeff
The list goes on and on. There literally isn't enough room or time to discuss every single incident with Drew from the past 8 years.

Evidently there isn't room to mention even one incident that comes close to justifying Jeff's gross abuse of power.  Everything he mentioned I've successfully shot down with little to no effort.  After all of this dredging and quoting, he has failed miserably to come up with anything close to a reasonable justification.

MTP Jeff
For a long time, I lingered over the decision, because it's such a serious one. Drew has been complaining about being harassed by moderators for months and months now, and that should tell you a lot about what was going on, and how far you have to go to get banned from the TMF.

My complaints were largely about being unjustifiably banned the previous June.  My complaints were about them forgetting to let me back in when the pronounced duration of the ban had expired.  If anything, those complaints demonstrate how little it takes for even a veteran contributer such as myself to fall into disfavor and draw all manner of administrative bullying, intimidation, and abuse of power. 

Furthermore, consider the timing of the ban, which occured during a debate in which Jeff was irritably losing.   The fact that Jeff chose that specific point to ban me speaks more of a rash and desperate impulse rather than any "lingering" over making a decision. 

MTP Jeff
If he was really being harassed by me, and if I really was as capricious as he wanted to claim he'd have been gone a long time ago. But I let him continue to snipe at me in order to avoid looking unfair.

Me sniping at Jeff?  LOL.  This is going beyond hypocrisy into utter hilarity.  Jeff evidently has forgotten about his public tourettes temper tantrums against me.  He calls me an asshole, troll, etc., then in his patented hypocritical fashion.  The only shots I ever took at Jeff were in self defense, and even then they were pretty mild.  But Jeff is such an egotist, he regards any questioning of the rules and policy as a snipe against him.  He followed me from thread to thread making threats bullying me into silence.  And now he's trying to paint himself as this easy-going, benevolent and patient admin who painfully endures all these random shots I take at him.    

Jeff, what color is the sky in your world? 

MTP Jeff
This recent binky thread is just too much, though. His behavior in there is incredibly personal, against me but more importantly against innocent members of the TMF whose only crime was to chew on a binky in real life, and use Internet slang. On top of that there was barely any correlation to the topic at hand.

See what I mean?  All these accusations of me getting incredibly personal against him?  If you look at the binky thread, the only personal behavior against Jeff is me asking him to clarify his position as to whether or not Helena's post violated forum policy.  That's his idea of me "getting incredibly personal." 

It was an almost naked attempt to stir up trouble, insult people he doesn't like, make the forum uncomfortable for them, and make things as difficult and complicated for me as possible.

LOL.  Is it THAT difficult to answer a simple question?   Jeff got all worked up because he couldn't bring himself to answer that question honestly.  What made that thread the last straw is that he lost his temper when I respectfully asked him one simple question.

MTP Jeff
Well, enough is enough. This forum was once a pretty peaceful place, without these weekly or bi-weekly flareups of threads that are carefully constructed to appear innocent while actually being mean-spirited attacks on people. And I finally felt that as the person who ultimately has the responsibility of deciding what's best for the forum (which is not a light weight to carry, or one I treat casually,) I had to do the difficult and necessary thing, and excise this infection from the healthy body of the TMF.

I repeat that I did it with great regret, and after literally years of trying to find any way out of it.

Is that a violin I'm hearing?  LOL.  The truth is that Jeff had painted himself into a corner.  He had every means of controlling my behavior at his disposal.  How?  By adjusting the rules to forbid whatever specific behaviors to which he objected.  Those rules are what determine how I'm going to act and how far I'll go to make a point.  In other words, he could have redrawn the line.

I've told Jeff this many times.  Myriads, as well.  If I'm obeying the rules, and you still find fault with my behavior, it doesn't take a quantum physicist to figure out that the rules aren't doing their job and need to be reevaluated.  Jeff never once considered that option.  It was easier just to ban.

Jeff has proven himself to be an egotist, a liar, a thug, and a hypocrit.  I personally think the community could easily appoint a better class of leader.

Recap:  After Jeff permanently banned me, he posted a thread in which he tries to justify his action by bringing up past posts of mine, none of which constitute a violation by his own admission. The last example we discussed was my fictitious story inspired by an incident in which Venray backstabbed me over an issue with CrystalLight.  The story had nothing to do with the TMF or any of it's members, but Jeff cites it as an example just the same, but with the following caveat:

MTP Jeff
It's easy to brush this off as a "so what" situation. But due to it being an ongoing issue for not months, but years and directly affecting user's and the forum's general ambiance, it tends to add up.

The reason it's easy to brush it off is because it IS a "so what" situation.  I'd like to know to what "ongoing situation" Jeff is referring.  This was the first and only time I ever posted a parallel story like that, which on the violation scale is big fat goose egg.  And zero violations ongoing for years still adds up to zero.

MTP Jeff
Another example of his harassment is here, in this post he made about polyamory. Polyamory, like bdsm, is a subject that Drew70 cannot tolerate. Not only will he not tolerate it in his own life, but he won't tolerate it in others. And anyone who practices it becomes the target of his attacks.

You'll see in a moment that the only example of an attack that Jeff was able to produce is a goofy song parody I wrote about Polyamory.  We'll get to that in a moment, but first a couple of things need to be made clear.

Polyamory, literally translated, means "many loves."  While polygamy refers to having multiple wives or husbands, polyamory means to have multiple sexual relationships, whether married or no.

My first comments on the topic can be seen in a thread called Is polyamory just a feel-good euphemism for adultery?  So much for Jeff's insistence that polyamory "is a subject that Drew70 cannot tolerate."  If I can't tolerate the subject, why would I start a thread devoted to it? 

The title of this polyamory thread of mine might suggest I was confused as to the difference between polamory and polygamy, and perhaps that was true at the time.  If so, it was because the three most vocal proponents of polyamory on the TMF (LindyHopper, Redmage, and BellaRisa) were all married. 

This brings us to the only real objection I ever had of polyamory, which can be seen in the the Opening Post.

drew70
My opinion is that if you're single, there is little to no impediments that would keep one from such a lifestyle. For a married person, you've entered into a commitment and if you "fuck around" so to speak, it's adultery, whether or not your spouse approves.

After more outraged accusations of moral judgments, it became necessary to restate it later in the thread:

drew70
Now this is just my opinion, and contrary to what may have been said about me, I don't hold anybody who differs with it as any more or less inferior or superior. My personal opinion (which everyone here should take with a grain of salt) is that it would be better for somebody who is interested in a polyamorous lifestyle not to marry. Marriage, as I understand it, is to commit oneself emotionally and sexually to another, which to me in my admittedly limited understanding of such things would seem to be at odds with the multiple partner thing, not that anybody choosing to do so is in any way whatsoever less moral, or otherwise inferior.

So that's it.  That's the extent of my "vicious attacks" on all who practice polyamory.  Not that it was bad, or anybody who practiced it was bad.  Only that MARRIED people who practice it are by definition committing adultery.  So with that in mind, let's hear Jeff's only piece of evidence of my "hatred and intolerance" of the polyamorous.

MTP Jeff
There were many threads on the subject that drew used to subtly harass people he knew practiced it, but it ended in this, when he wrote a poem naming names and making fun of members of the forum. And again, it could appear innocent, but you have to keep in mind that these were people drew had attacked and harassed. Their names are appearing here not in friendly jest, but in mean-spirited mockery. Don't forget to notice the title:

drew70
Song Parody - "The Polyamory Primer" (If offended - oh well)
---------------------------------------------------------

It's been a while since I cranked out a song parody, though for many I'm sure that's a good thing. Nonetheless, I feel it's time to exercise my rhyming skills once again with a song parody devoted to a recent hot topic.

If you’re wondering, “Golly,
Please tell me, what’s poly…amory?”
I am sure I could prolly
Explain to you poly…amory!

If you’re bangin both Molly
And Milly, that’s poly…amory!
If she’s sleepin with Wally
And Willy, that’s poly…amory

Doorbells ring
Ting-a-ling-a-ling
Ting-a-ling-a-ling
And you’ll sing, “Come in, Bella!

“Please come play
Tickle every day
Me and Desiree
Cause our way ain’t vanella!”

Agents Mulder and Scolly
Are too straight for poly…amory.
But old Stanley and Ollie
Might likely dig poly…amory!

Underdog with Sweet Polly
Indulged in some poly…amory
With old Sir Walter Raleigh
Who'd smoke during poly…amory!

Doorbells ring
Ting-a-ling-a-ling
Ting-a-ling-a-ling
Lindy’ll sing, “Come in, fella!

“You’re on stage
With me and my sage
Whom we call Redmage
Cause our way ain’t vanella!”

Deck the halls with some holly
This Christmas with poly…amory
You can Fa-la-la lolly
Together in poly…amory!

So come on and feel jolly
You’re gonna love poly…amory.
Let’s thank Allister Crawly
For inventing poly…amory!

This song was deleted by the mods years ago. It was sung to the tune of Dean Martin's "That's Amore." Sure I named names in the song. So what? People name names all the time on the TMF. This song was pure tongue-in-cheek but because Redmage and Bella have these giant egos, they couldn't abide a song that cast them in such a light vein. 

By now, you can see clearly that the best example that Jeff can offer of my behavior that was so terrible he had no choice to ban me amount to a goofy song parody about polyamory. Nice going, Jeff.  Siontz & Kirk you're not.

MTP Jeff
As I mentioned above, the other subject that Drew loved to harass people about was bdsm. Here he creates a thread to attack people who practice it.

http://www.ticklingforum.com/showthread.php?t=74769

Another example of Jeff's flip-flopping.  Harrassing people and attacking them are forum violations.  Jeff has already admitted he had no violations to pin on me.  Why can't he just tell the truth?  That BDSM thread was an earnest plea for the TMF to denounce men who take pleasure in harming women.  The opening post was very clear about that and provided a golden example of a man (Redmage) brutalizing a young woman with something akin to a cattle prod while holding a huge knife dangerously close to her.  It was a sickening display of abuse.  All I did was to try and encourage the forum that "we are better than this."

MTP Jeff
But what's particularly annoying is that the user Susannah335 is actually also Drew70, using a falsely created identity to support himself. We spotted it because the IPs were identical, and once we decided to track it we were able to watch as Drew logged out one identity, logged in the other and used it, then logged out to return to being himself again. As, let's be honest, incredibly stupid and petty as that is, what's worse is that he created a whole back story of abuse to support this fake identity.

http://www.ticklingforum.com/showthr...432#post920432

Yes, let's indeed be honest.  Jeff is more concerned over a harmless fictitious virtual character whose sole crime was spicing up a thread, than allowing the TMF to become a posting arena for some of the most God-awful abuse outside of Abu Grabe.  That fact alone shines a revealing light into his character, or more accurately, his lack thereof.  But what can you expect from a guy who's regard for women and their wellbeing can be summed up in a single two-word signature:  "Fuck Safewords."  His low opinion of women in general was further clarified at one of last year's gatherings in which he passed out to several women baby pacifiers with the words "mute button."

MTP Jeff 
I really lack words to express my disgust.

Oh yeah.  Jeff was so disgusted he mentioned not a word of it to me, and even embraced me like a long lost brother a couple months later at NEST.   Funny how he lacked words until he decided to ban me.

It's true.  I did create and use fictitious characters.  Why?  Because the TMF has a long history of a lynch mob mentality.  As soon as three or four prominent members rally against somebody like me, a hoard of them will pick up torches and chant right in.  Nobody will dare side with the lone opposition for fear of suffering his ostricization. 

I'd seen this happen time and time again, so I decided to see how well some of these high and mighty blowhards would manage with odds that weren't twenty to one in their favor.  Had there been a posted rule against such tactics, I wouldn't have done it.  But Myriads himself had confirmed to me that there was no such policy at the TMF that forbade multiple identities.

There still isn't!

Which makes sense when you think about it, since virtually every identity on the TMF is fictitious, unless you believe that people were born with the names "Redmage" and "CrystalLight."  Yet people speak as though creating a false identity on the TMF was the most dispicable act of dishonesty conceivable. 

I honestly don't see it that way.  I see it as using creativity and imagination to deal with unevenly matched debating teams.  The pharisees, deprived of their accustomed unanimity, were forced to actually use their heads and come up with convincing arguments against mine and those of my dopplegangers.  I think it was the first time for many of them.

Whatever you may think of the tactic, the result was pure comedy.  Those pompous holier-than-thou pharisees were momentarily thrown into a panic.  For once, their browbeating tactics were having no effect, as more and more "people" spoke up against them.

Was it as disgusting as Jeff (only recently) claims to believe?  I really don't think it is.  When two opposing golfers' skills are mismatched, what do they do?  They give the one a handicap.  When gamblers bet on football games the bookies always award the poorer team extra points by which the favored team must win.  Why?  To compensate for the mismatch and make the competetion more of a fair shake.  I simply applied this same principle to forum debate in a new and creative way. 

MTP Jeff
Another well-known thread created by Mimi titled; "A Masters Creed (not for all - BDSM related - if offended, do not open)" contains only a slim cut off the top of Drew's obvious issues with those involved in BDSM. It also shows his style of managing to throw insults at others, without having to directly call someone out.

Jeff to his credit admitted that he couldn't pin any violation on me.  If I were truly managing to insult specific people, wouldn't that be a violation?  This is yet another inconsistency around which Jeff constantly dances in this kangaroo courtroom.  If I'm guilty of insulting people, that would be a violation.  If there is no violation, there is no insult.  Jeff tries to make it complicated to make people feel sorry for him, but it's really not that complex.

MTP Jeff

This history continued far back as well as further forward from the time of that thread's creation. Even up to him throwing shots at Redmage in a thread titled: "Unnerving your 'Lee: How do you Cause?"

Inside that thread was a re-quote of a thread drew had started a little while back, publicly apologizing to the BDSM community. Right after that was posted, drew went on to publicly retract the statement and push forward with more attempts at stirring the pot.

Well, here's another lie from Jeff to add to the ever-lengthening list.  I never retracted that apology.  It was offered in sincerity in an attempt to bridge some of the rifts between myself and those in the BDSM community, including Bella Risa.  And when she continued to act snotty and superior, I decided that would be the last futile attempt on my part to make peace with her.  Note that doesn't make either attempt any less sincere as Jeff is infering.  It just means that if peace is to be made, it's now up to Bella to initiate it.  Unfortunately, I'm convinced that every iceberg on the planet will melt long before Bella's cold heart ever will.

Actually, I privately offered truces to both LindyHopper and BellaRisa.  Lindy wouldn't agree to it unless I took full responsibility for our mutual emnity.  In other words, I had to agree that it was all my fault and she never once contributed to the emnity between us.  Bella never even replied.  That was my first attempt to make amends with Bella.  The apology Jeff referenced was the second. 

BellaRisa on the other hand has yet to ever admit to being wrong about anything. She's never apologized to anybody on the forum nor has she ever acknowledged a single soul as having any qualities superior to her own.  She's even convinced that her own obesity is normal and what most guys prefer.

MTP Jeff
Unfortunately, since those days he has learned to carefully walk the line of our rules, to avoid getting into a situation where he could be fairly banned.

Right.  We all know how uncool it is for people to obey the rules for the underhanded purpose of avoiding banishment.  Gee, what was I thinking?  But Jeff's comment begs the question:  If drew70 can't be fairly banned, what's the only other way to ban him?

MTP Jeff
So I was faced with a situation where I had to either do a difficult thing, and ban someone for their complete attitude and behavior, without a specific rule to point to, or I could continue to tolerate thread after thread, and post after post, with no purpose but to inflame the forum, attack people he doesn't personally like, and harass me in particular.

Thread after thread; post after post; NONE of which constituted any forum violation whatsoever, even cummulatively.  The ugly truth around which Jeff is dancing here is that I was the first INNOCENT person he ever banned. He did it out of anger, and to appease those who didn't think I was cool enough to be included in the TMF membership.  THAT's what he feels bad about, and that's why he's trying to purge his guilt with all of this counterfeit justification.

MTP Jeff

Drew loved to come up with obscure points that he could use to try to make me dance around justifying myself, because it made him mad that I wouldn't let him get away with his trolling behaviors.

Behaviors which, trolling or otherwise, were completely permissible according to TMF policy.  What made me mad was Jeff's blatant favoritism which I've documented at length in this blog.  What made me mad was Jeff publically inviting me to discuss an issue with him in PM, and when I do, he privately tells me he was lying when he gave the invitation.  What made me mad is Jeff throwing away his previously remarkable record of fair calls, as well as the necessary detachment an admin must keep.  What made me mad was that Jeff allowed his hunger for girls half his age trump his good sense, and now he's found his good sense wanting.

Recap: Shortly after my permanent ban from the TMF, Jeff posted a new thread called What happened to Drew70 in which he holds his little Kangaroo Court trial to attempt to justify this blatant abuse of power which was executed reflexively, out of anger, in the heat of an argument.  Knowing his examples of my "transgressions" will be totally weak, he throws in the sympathy card ("I'm truly saddened it came to this..." etc), which radically contradicts other public statements he's made expressing a desire for me to leave the forum.

Okay, now we come to the point in the thread in which Jeff provides examples of the kind of behavior for which I'm "notorious."  When you read these quotes of me, bear in mind that this is what Jeff is offering as justification for my ban.

MTP Jeff
As far back as 2001, Drew started using a familiar tactic, acting as if he didn't understand something in order to lure someone out. Look in the recent Binky thread and you'll see him trying to do it to me, again and again.

here:

http://www.ticklingforum.com/showthread.php?p=1894687#post1894687

and especially here

http://www.ticklingforum.com/showthread.php?p=1896754#post1896754

Both of these examples are from the last thread we discussed; the one in which Helena expressed concern over the surging popularity of binkies and the word PWN.  According to Jeff, I'm acting as if I don't understand something in order to "lure him out," as if this is a horrible thing to do.  The truth is that I DO often play dumb when I want my opponent to elaborate clearly on his position or agenda.  It's a perfectly acceptable means of insuring that critical points of view get established.

Jeff hates this and reacts with vehement vitriol whenever I do this.  Why?  First, he clearly feels that he is above me on the social scale.  It's beneath him to answer my questions because in doing so, it puts him in the role of servant, meeting my requests.  Jeff relishes his position at the top of the TMF food chain.  He thrives on the power and uses it to manipulate young girls his way.  But as the owner and admin of the forum, Jeff is answerable to the people that pose legitimate questions, and he hates that responsibility. 

Secondly, if Jeff were on solid ground with regards to his policies and his handling of them, it wouldn't matter if I'm playing dumb.  He could just state his position, policy, or whatever, and explain how it relates to whatever current issue is going on. That's what Myriads does.  But Jeff gets apoplectic because I challenge his invasive meddling and underscore his rampant hypocritical favoritism.  It infuriates him that I'm able to do this calmly,  rationally, and even respectfully, while he, on the other hand, can't hold his temper to save his life.

It's a common method of debate to use your opponent's words against him.  The worst you can say is that it means I'm trying to make a point and win an argument.  Whatever my "tactics" are, I'm not pointing a gun to his head.  He's still free to either engage me or walk away.  And that's been true of every debate I've ever had with anybody.

And this justifies permanent expulsion?  Surely we're not getting the full story here.

MTP Jeff
But that behavior dates back to the founding of the forum. Some of the earliest moderator conversations were about how to handle Drew's tactics. I mention this to point out just how much slack Drew has been given over the years.

What tactics, Jeff?  So far all you've pointed to are debating strageties.  And what's all this about slack?  You had literally no grounds on which to take any action whatsoever, and you knew it.

MTP Jeff

Here's a post of his to illustrate what I'm talking about:

http://www.ticklingforum.com/showthread.php?p=30432#post30432

drew70
I live in upper Montgomery County. Sounds interesting except for this "master" business. What's that all about?

This is obvious bait, because Drew was an older man at this point already, he had been participating online for years and years, had read fiction, seen pictures and videos, and was clearly completely familiar with the term "Master." But he puts on his halo, blinks innocently, and asks "Oh, what does this mean." And the reason he does that, is that he can then twist your words around. Notice how innocent his first question is, and how quickly he pounces once he has a response.

If Jeff had taken a closer look he might have noticed that I was responding to a personal ad titled "In desperate need of a tickling partner in Maryland"...

jcarrielott
Looking for a tickling partner in maryland......preferrably the Washington Co/Frederick Co area. Me and my Master are looking for someone to tickle or help him tickle me. No sex necessary. Only a love of tickling and bondage!

I live in Maryland.  The county in which I live borders one of the two counties of which she speaks.  I was genuinely interested in meeting these people. This ad had two very attractive components to it.  The geographical location was very close by, and no sex was required or expected. 

The only thing that raised a red flag was that she referred to her significant other as "Master."  And yes, I did have a pretty good idea that meant they were into BDSM.  But rather than to form presumptions, I shelved my suspicion and asked her plainly what she meant by that.  I find the whole master/slave thing disturbing on many levels, and I wanted to know how much a part it would play should we decide to get together.

But before she could answer, our wesident Wolverine wannabee DVNC screwed the pooch, thank you very much.

dvnc
For those that haven't yet noticed, drew70 has issues with the BDSM community's practice of dominant and submissive lifestyles.

drew70
Which is precisely why I asked my question in the nicest way possible, free of derision, sarcasm, and innuendo.

dvnc
drew70, I'm not yanking the comment strictly because it shows your perspective better than anything I could say.

drew70
In all honesty I'm confused as to why you feel it necessary to say anything at all. Have I commited some sort of offense? You've explained why you didn't yank my post. Am I permitted to know why you even considered doing so?

dvnc
I know from your post yesterday, and from several in the AMT over the years, that you know very well what's meant here.

drew70
The best I can say is that I have an idea of what is going on, but rather than make presumptions, I thought I'd give the benefit of the doubt and ask. I can see now that you personally disapprove of my asking, but are you seriously going to tell me it comes anywhere near violating the TMF charter?

dvnc
It's not, however, kind to the poster, and for that, jcarrielott, I apologize. This poster, drew70, has some notoreity as a good and reasoned poster, generally speaking, on AMT. His perspectives, while not genial to what is clearly your lifestyle, and the lifestyle of many, here, are his, and not mine. I encourage you to find your bliss here, regardless of the occasional derision.

drew70
What exactly was unkind?? I asked her "What's up with that?" That's all! Are you reading something else into this??

dvnc
With any luck, one of the other moderators won't find his repeated offense towards this lifestyle to be a reason to remove his post. It serves to define him, which is, for the purpose of the Personals, a good thing.

You can read the rest of our exchange in the thread by clicking on Jeff's link. You'll see that dvnc recants his unwarranted involvement.  Yet Jeff is bringing it up here as an example of my "intolerable" behavior.  Jeff's bizarre strategy is to continue establishing a pattern in which I ask questions to which I already know (or at least suspect) the answer.  It's clear this irritates the piss out of Jeff, but does it qualify as an actual violation, or even an offense?  Where's the insult?  Where's the flame?  Where's the violation?

That's why I refer to Jeff's strategy as bizarre.  It's like he can't pin any actual violation on me so the best strategy he can come up with is "Look what Drew said here!  Isn't that annoying?  Wouldn't you guys have banned him if you were me??"

MTP Jeff
But it wasn't always subtle, either. Eventually Drew had to be banned permanently from the Politics and Religion forum because he couldn't stop nakedly insulting people to their face:

12/6/04

drew70
Considering the apoplectic responses from some of the hard line liberals just in this forum, it's clear to see they are an elitist intolerant lot.

1/9/05

Haltickling
There was a time when most Europeans trusted in American presidents...

drew70
There was a time when it actually mattered who most Europeans trusted.

I'll admit, the political discussions got heated, but there were far worse things said by other people.  What do you expect on a forum devoted to politics?  The above comment regarding liberals was a generalization and not attacking anybody specific.  And Hal?  That motherfucker was constantly spewing anti-American venom over the war in Iraq. I get banned from the P&R for bashing a political school of thought, but Herr Hal gets a pass when he trashes America.  Surely that couldn't be because Hal used to be a TMF moderator?  Favoritism, anybody?

MTP Jeff
For almost a decade, we've been discussing him, and how to deal with his various attacks and tactics, and trying everything we could think of to avoid having it come to this.

Evidently the only things that Jeff could "think of" were bullying, Geshtapo scare tactics, and name-calling.  Here are some typical examples of Jeff's diplomatic efforts to address my behavior...

MTP Jeff  09/07/06 

Seriously, Drew, shut the fuck up.

MTP Jeff  11/12/08 

If rules were rules you'd have been banned a long time ago, be glad that we're flexible enough to interpret things on a case by case basis.

Now I'm going to piss you off even more by declaring this off-topic discussion over.

MTP Jeff  11/26/08 

No you aren't, and no you don't, and if you drag your personal bullshit into this thread, you're going to be excluded from it.

MTP Jeff  11/13/08 

I was specifically talking about you, you irredeemable, unrelenting, asshole. You've been trouble on this forum since the first day you joined it, and the fact that you don't want this to be about your behavior doesn't make it so.

Jeff tries to paint a picture in which he attempts all manner of reasoning with me, but his history paints an entirely different picture.

MTP Jeff
But ultimately, I have to do what's best for the forum, and Drew's behavior, especially lately, has gone from being merely annoying and curmudgeonly, to being vicious, relentless, and deliberately destructive. He has targeted a group of members for merciless and endless harassment. And that will. Not. Be. Tolerated. Here.

So far, none of the examples given even come close to being vicious, relentless, or destructive.  This is wild exaggeration, completely insupportable.  He's yet to identify what group I've supposedly "targeted," or even offer any evidence that would lend the slightest bit of credence to this wild accusation.  As usual Jeff. Is. Full. Of. Shit.

MTP Jeff
Yet another classic example of his trend is this thread, "Have you ever been back stabbed by a friend over a girl?"

http://www.ticklingforum.com/showthread.php?t=127565

Now the initial premise of this thread looks innocent enough. A question is posed and a back story to support the thread question. Here's the issue with that thread: The two characters that he spoke about, "Jim" and "Sue" were not the actual names of the people he was referring to. He was actually speaking directly about Venray and CrystalLight. He had an issue with their friendship, again just seeming to decide that things that have NOTHING to do with him must be stopped, and decided to slam them by conjuring up this fictitious story thread.

The truth is that I WAS backstabbed by Venray over Crystal Light, and not real happy about it, either.  It was a bitter lesson learned, and one that INSPIRED me to write this story.  A story, I might add that didn't involve either Venray, CrystalLight, or even the TMF at all.  I was not "speaking directly about Venray and CrystalLight" but rather Jim and Sue, two FICTICIOUS characters.  Yes, there are parallels, but there are differences as well.

Jeff claims that I posted that story because Venray's friendship with CrystalLight "must be stopped."  As if I'm sitting at my keyboard, typing this story, cackling like a mad scientist, "THIS WILL STOP THEIR FRIENDSHIP!  MWAHAHAHAHAHA!!"

Jeff is frustrated because I used a little creative imagination to express myself while keeping within the ever-tightening constraints of forum policy.  Jeff has no capacity for creativity or imagination. None whatsoever, and so he resents mine all the more.

Jeff complains that my behavior was bad enough to warrant my being banned, but in truth, what consistently frustrated him was that my behavior was too good!  It left him no legitimate excuse to ban me. Yet finally his ill temper won out over his sense of fair play and dispite his lack of credible excuse, he bans me to appease Bella and to gain favor with CrystalLight.

Wikipedia
A kangaroo court or kangaroo trial, sometimes likened to a drumhead court-martial, refers to a sham legal proceeding or court. The colloquial phrase "kangaroo court" is used to describe judicial proceedings that, the speaker feels, deny due process rights in the name of expediency. Such rights include the right to summon witnesses, the right of cross-examination, the right not to incriminate oneself, the right not to be tried on secret evidence, the right to control one's own defense, the right to exclude evidence that is improperly obtained, irrelevant or inherently inadmissible, e.g., hearsay, the right to exclude judges or jurors on the grounds of partiality or conflict of interest, and the right of appeal.

 

The outcome of a trial by "kangaroo court" is essentially determined in advance, usually for the purpose of providing a conviction, either by going through the motions of manipulated procedure or by allowing no defense at all.

The day MTP Jeff announced my permanent ban from the Tickling Media Forum, he later posted the thread What happened with Drew70 in which he tries to justify his action of banishing me, after the fact.  If this were anything near an actual legal trial, Jeff's flimsy "evidence" would be laughed out of court.  His strategy is two-fold.  By his own admission he can't nail me on any violations, so he offers examples of my behavior that show how not cool I am.  By establishing drew70's lack of cool, he gains support, or at least less heat for his rash action.  You'll see what I mean in a few moments.  The other half of his strategy is to feign sad reluctance that this action "became necessary."  He solicits sympathy and understanding for this oh so painful action he was "forced into." 

Of course any legal trial would require the defendant the opportunity to mount a defense against the allegations.  Jeff never intended for that to happen.  His MO is to ban first, and then show a cursory attempt at explanation.

MTP Jeff
As some of you already know, it was necessary to ban Drew70 from the TMF today. Banning is something that we only do very rarely, and only when all other avenues have been exhausted. There are only a handful of people on the forum who have been banned in our eight year history, so the first thing I want to make clear is that it's not something that was undertaken lightly. The subject of Drew being banned is something that the moderators of the TMF have discussed quite literally for years.

This is a very disturbing picture here.  For years, the moderators have discussed my removal from the forum.  Not once was I included in those discussions.  Not once was I ever afforded the God-given right of every man to face his accusers.  You'd think this forum originated in Nazi Germany, not America.  It never had to be this way.  Jeff and Myriads could have come up with any number of better systems that would require complainers to launch their complaints publically, instead of behind closed doors. 

Instead, they opted for this justice system that offers numerous provisions for prosecution and judgement, but none whatsoever for defense.  As we've seen in the TooMuchFavoritism blog entries, Jeff expects me to show gratitude to him for defending me.  He expresses personal outrage that I don't.

What he doesn't seem to get is that I never asked for his defense.  To be honest, he's the last defense lawyer I'd ever want.  His idea of defending me is to plead guilty but wave sentence in light of public service.  If he really wanted to defend me, he should have told the truth.  That controversial or not, the statements I make fall well within the constraints of forum behavioral policies, and he has no legitimate grounds on which to ban me. 

MTP Jeff
And the truth is, I've always been his biggest defender. I've had friends get personally angry at me because of my tendency to forgive Drew's faults and behaviors. But my feeling has always been that A) It SHOULD be hard to get banned from the TMF. I take great pride in what an open forum we are. And B) Drew's history in the tickling community made him deserve a lot of latitude. Drew was one of the earliest contributors to the online tickling community, once spending hundreds of hours to take the trouble of scanning images of tickling from magazines and posting them online to share. In those days Drew and I were good friends:

Drew70 (posted in Usenet newsgroup alt.multimedia.tk)

As for Jeff of Magic Touch, I personally have nothing but good things to say about him. During the days when I scanning and posting what ended up being a series of 2001 pics, Jeff approached me and offered to send me a couple of videos, free of charge, simply because it bothered him that I was getting no compensation for all of my hard work. I declined the offer initially, but he approached me again and I accepted. He sent me two cool f/f videos, for which I'm still grateful. The way you describe him doesn't sound like the Jeff I know.

So what have we established here?  That Jeff and I used to be friends, for one.  The other is that I have a history of defending Jeff publically, while he has a history of defending me privately.

MTP Jeff

Then this is a post I made last year in our administration forum, defending Drew from an outcry of people wanting him banned:

MTP Jeff
That being said, remember what an exceptional case ********** was. I don't think Drew needs banning by any stretch of the imagination, not because he's a nice guy in real life (though I've said previously that he is,) but because 80% of the time, maybe more, he's a perfectly nice guy here. ********** was the opposite ratio, 80% jackass.

That was in August of 2007. As recently as that, I felt very strongly that Drew should not be banned.

Let's back up a minute here.  Who are all the people launching this "outcry" wanting me banned?  I have no freakin idea.  This shit all goes on in secret meetings.  On what did they base their call for my removal?  Could any of them point to any TMF policy violations?  If so, then let's hear what they are.  If not, then against what do I need any defense at all? 

MTP Jeff
But unfortunately, Drew has never really been able to get along on a moderated forum.

That is a load of crap.  I've only ever had problems on the TMF. I've been a member of Tickle Theatre since 2003.  Never had any moderator conflict.  There are other forums I've participated in for years with no problems whatsoever.

MTP Jeff
When we had barely even launched, he would post on AMT and complain about the moderation of the forum. He's been very open all along about the fact that he feels there should be no moderation, everyone should be free to say anything they want.

At AMT I did express disdain for the TMF's censorship policies, but I never slammed the TMF as a whole, although there was plenty of that going on at the time.  Here is an example of a typical AMT thread discussing the TMF.  On the second page, it's me you'll find defending the TMF against some of its more radical detractors.

Drew70 (quoted from AMT)

> Finally a voice of reason. I agree that their ego
> has gotten way too big for their britches. Having
> a flashy web page does not automatically make
> you "the only authority" on ANY subject, regard-

> less what the "TMF gods" want you to believe.

There are no "TMF Gods."  Those in charge are normal folks with good and bad qualities just like the rest of us.  You guys are taking this way off the deep end.  Describing the TMF'ers this way is as silly as them describing AMT as nothing but flames, lies, and childishness.  I hang out at both places and I can assure you that coolness is the majority at both forums.

I even took heat for defending Jeff and the others at the TMF.  Read through that thread, and you'll see several people who had nothing good to say about the TMF.  All I did was criticize the censorship policies.  And I consistently limited my TMF criticism to that one aspect until Jeff began trolling the forum, dogging me with every post I made.

MTP Jeff
The problem with that of course, is that the result is that the loudest and most aggressive people dominate every discussion, while more soft spoken people are ignored, or even abused.

And how has that in any way changed?  Look who dominates nearly every discussion now?  The loudest, most arrogant people on the forum.  In other words, The Clique.

MTP Jeff
AMT proved that conclusively. The more people who started participating in the online tickling community, the more vileness we started to see. People flocked to the TMF in droves to get away from that kind of wild west, shoot anyone you want, mentality. And the success of the forum seems to strongly suggest, if not prove, the validity of that. In eight years we've gone from 800 to 80,000.

Before Jeff breaks his arm patting himself on the back, permit me to easily debunk these nakedly self-serving conclusions.  It's true that some people did flee AMT and run to the TMF. Most were socially inept hyper-sensitive individuals who couldn't handle any negative feedback from their posts.  Others saw opportunities for positions of power in a new, heavily policed environment. 

But the mass exodus of AMT to the TMF had nothing to do with Jeff's skills as an admin, but rather to the declining health of AMT's founder and administrator, Bob Hare.  For years, Bob had worked tirelessly to keep AMT spam free.  But then his health declined and he became bedridden, unable to maintain the newsgroup.  It was a very sad and tragic story.  Spam began to flood the forum unchecked, and people consequently left in droves.  The TMF was the only place left to go. 

Not to be candid, but for Jeff to capitalize on Bob Hare's tragic decline, and go as far as to take credit this way shows what an opportunistic lowlife he truly is.

Secondly, It's about time somebody addressed this 80,000 member deal, and now is as good a time as any.  Jeff too often proudly tosses about this 80K-member statistic as if the TMF literally has 80,000 participating members, which is completely absurd.  That figure represents every TMF registration ever submitted.  It doesn't take into account the multiple login credentials many people use.  I've had about thirty of them over the years.  Many people who don't visit often can't recall their login, so they simply re-register.

If you look at the MEMBERS LIST ASSORTED BY POST COUNT it puts things into a much clearer perspective than Jeff would be comfortable admitting.  You'll have to scroll through about fifteen hundred pages before you'll find a member with even one post.  Here are some statistics about which you'll not hear Jeff boast.

Of the 80,000 members, approximately 65,000 have zero posts.  That means over 75% of the TMF membership have yet to encounter anything on the forum interesting enough to warrant even one comment.

Of the 80,000 members, approximately 78,500 have less then 100 posts in the TMF's 8 year history.  100 posts in an 8 year period is roughly one post a month.

The truth here is that in spite of the 80,000 member claim, there's never been more than a few hundred consistent posters at any one point in the TMF's history.

MTP Jeff
But this was never the right home for Drew. He always preferred the wild west, and was always open about it. Which in and of itself is fine. The problem was that he kept trying to make the forum become what he wished it was, by bending and stretching and skirting the rules, to incite fights and trouble and flames at every opportunity.

Only people in positions of authority can bend or stretch the rules.  Perfect example being Jeff himself bending the rules to allow Bella Risa to post a cartoon of a kindergarten aged girl dressed in dominatrix attire in a S&M scenario.  I have no say in the rules, neither with their implementation, nor their enforcement.  It's absolutely ridiculous to suggest that I can stretch or bend them.

Skirting the rules?  Yes, that I do, and I make no apology for it.  It's up to the admins to set and clearly mark the boundaries of acceptable behavior.  Wherever those boundaries are set, expect me operate just inside of them.  Jeff and company act like this is such a deplorable, dispicable modus operandi.  The reason they do so is because it puts the burden on them to draw a clear line between that which is acceptable and that which is not.  And that is something they are loathe to do.

But there is nothing wrong with operating to the limits of acceptability without crossing that line.  We as a society do it all the time.  We take advantage of every possible tax break our accountants can muster.  We accelerate our cars right up to the posted speed limit.  Imagine a cop pulling you over and writing a ticket because you were "skirting" the speed limit.

The TMF can be likened to a children's playground.  There are playground monitors to insure the kids behave themselves.  Kids are punished for saying mean things to the other kids.  The playground itself has boundaries, usually surrounded by a fence.  Kids can play anywhere within those boundaries. 

Now imagine a school principal expelling a kid because he was consistently playing near the fence.  Not climbing the fence or venturing beyond it, just playing near it.  That's what MTP Jeff is doing here with me.  He can't cite one actual violation, so he accuses me of skirting the line that he himself drew!  And then acts like he's all sad about it.  Textbook hypocrisy at its finest.

(...to be continued)

Recap:  Helena posted the thread Do You Refuse to Suck a Binky and hate the word PWN?  Jeff was the first to jump on her with both feet, then Bella and the rest of the clique dutifully followed suit.  This thread is a sterling example of MTP Jeff's policy of cliquish favoritism.

We now come to two of the most sensible posts in the entire thread.

Ticklshchic03
Crystal, Jeff, Skip... get off the defense fence. She never at any point directly used any of your names. She stated her opinion. Instead of automatically going on a personal rant about why she is "attacking" the forum... try discussing the issue. The second she rebutes, you attack again. Discussing would be a better idea since this is a discussion forum. I support your right to suck on a binki and use pwn. You are so right in that aspect but I respectfully request that there is a better way to discuss something then personally attacking her.

She sure makes a good point, doesn't she? Instead of discussing it with her, the first thing Jeff did was attempt to invalidate her right to this opinion.  We now know it's because he started the whole binky business.

Consider this, for a moment.  Jeff's idea of fun is to give a woman a pacifier with the words "mute button" printed on them.  This, along with his "fuck safewords" signature paints a picture of a man with little to no respect for women in general.  Let's hear from another woman as she questions this highly questionable practice.

Fireguardian
What is with the binkies? What is a the appeal behind them? How is it viewed as a joke to be handed an infants pacifier with the words mute button on it?

THis is just me trying to understand. My view on it is a very low one not that I have any thing against those who do have them. In fact I am quite fond of Cassie and Gin. They are very sweet girls. But personally I feel that should be handed something like this, regardless of how close a friend I am to the person, that binkie would go right up their ass. I see it as being very disrespectful. Don't give me something that says mute button on it; If you don't want to hear what I have to say then all you have to do is walk away.

The other thing is while I might be one of the younger ones in my group of friends at age 23 I am by no means a child nor will I tolerate being put on that level. My life made me grow up very quickly and that's actually something I am proud of so I would honestly be hurt if my friends reduced me to the level of an infant. Frankly, that would be the point I looked for new friends. It would come off as demeaning to me as if my value was less than others. I have my moments of immaturity like anyone else but I still expect to be treated with respect.

I'm so glad to see that at least one other person sees that giving somebody a binky with the words mute button on it shows incredible poor taste and disrespect.

drew70
I feel for Helena. I really do. I know what it's like to voice an opinion about a specific behavior and then watch the herd of arrogant self-righteous line up one by one and take their shot.

Here's something I have difficulty rationalizing. The binky kids' arguments basically amount to, "hey, if we like binkies, pigtails and baby talk, we should be able to do so without being flamed about it."

I actually agree with this. You should. But you're unwilling to grant that same consideration to those of us who think this trend is disturbing, weird, or even downright retarded. You treat it as a personal attack, but in reality it isn't. It's attacking a behavior or a trend, not a person.

Allow me to illustrate with a hypothetical. TMF member Ticklebabe27 loves wearing a binky at gatherings, speaks lolcat broken English in many of her posts. Tickledude64 sees this trend of lolcat talk and Binkies gaining momentum. There's any number of public ways he could react, but here are three possibilities:

Scenario 1 - Tickledude64 posts, "Have you seen the way Ticklebabe27 speaks all that lolcat? Jesus, what a retard!"

This would be a textbook TMF GR violation, because he attacks another member specifically.

Scenario 2 - Tickledude64 posts, "I'm hear to tell you, anybody who speaks lolcat is a freakin retard in my book."

This is borderline. He doesn't name anybody specific, but speaks in a more general sense. Still, the attack is against people, and so could be interpreted as a violation if one really wanted to.

Scenario 3 - Tickledude64 posts, "I think that speaking lolcat is a pretty retarded thing to do, as is the wearing of binkies at social gatherings. I really hate this fucked up and disturbing trend."

He's no longer attacking people but attacking specific behaviors. Now Ticklebabe27 might think, "ZOMG!! I IS BEEN ATTAKT!" But she's not. She's taking it personally because she has chosen to identify with this behavior.

"But drew," you say. "If he's attacking the behavior, and everybody knows she behaves this way, that's just as bad as attacking HER!"

No, it isn't. He's attacking a specific action or activity, not the person doing it. You can love a person but hate some of the things they do. Because what they do is seldom reflective of WHO THEY ARE, most certainly not in the case of lolcat baby talk and pacifier sucking. If her feelings get hurt from what he said, it's because she connected that particular activity to herself as a person. She made the connection, not he.

When one publicizes his/her participation in any strange behavior, there will be people who think it's cool and others who think it isn't. If you're publically acting in a weird way, you can't reasonably expect everybody be on board with it. It is equally unreasonable to expect those who think it's funny, strange, weird or disturbing to keep quiet about their feelings. Sorry guys, but society is just not that accommodating.

To the best of my knowledge, the TMF's ruleset forbids the attacking of other TMF members, but makes no mention of attacking behavioral trends. Once again, if this is not the case, I invite the mods and admins to clarify.

MTP Jeff
What makes you think anyone is saying Helena broke a rule? Is it possible that you're talking about something else entirely and trying to pretend that you're not?

drew70
I think I can read the thread as well as anybody. And no, I don't see anybody using those specific words, but there is much inference that Helena's post was inappropriate. Some reacted with indignance and others with downright hostility that was directed at Helena personally. There are at least two moderators taking an opposing posture against her that goes beyond simple disagreement.

I know what it's like to be outnumbered like that, so I'm compelled to point out in Helena's defense that nothing she said was a violation of any kind, and if that's true, then she was grossly mistreated.

So let's set the record straight, shall we? Was Helena's opening post in this thread a violation of the GR, and if so, can you explain how?

MTP Jeff
Ok, let's indeed set the record straight. I don't exist to justify whatever retarded theory you come up with on a weekly basis about how persecuted you are. You invented this concern about a GR violation, and you can invent an explanation for it the same way.

drew70
I think I explained pretty well why I'm asking the question, and I've adequately demonstrated it's pertinence to the topic. You either can't or won't answer it, a fact which in and of itself, says much.

MTP Jeff
That said, I would appreciate it if you would stick to the topic at hand, and not invent sidetracks that exist only to enhance your image of yourself as a martyr.

drew70
Excuse me? I've been talking about Helena's post, and the subsequent reactions. I couldn't possibly be more on-topic.

MTP Jeff
The subject is binkies and saying pwn ruining helena's experience, not whether or not you're satisfied that she hasn't been accused of something.

drew70
As you wish.

Helena is not alone in her TMF experience being ruined by the excess of binkies and the use of the word PWN. Like a growing number of us, I suspect her frustration is compounded by yours and Bella's hostility toward her for expressing frustration over the binkies and the use of the word PWN ruining her experience, so in essence, her experience is further ruined. Congratulations.

Jeff, you yourself have commented that "a certain group of people is trying to make the forum intolerable for another group" You went on to say "It makes me defensive, and frankly, it won't be tolerated here."

Those sporting the binkies and and using the word PWN are making the forum intolerable for Helena and numerous others. So we have a situation where a group is making the forum intolerable for another group. And succeeding quite well. I would respectfully urge you to keep some consistancy with that which you vow not to tolerate.

MTP Jeff
What a clever trap of words you've woven, drew, how will I ever clear my good name in the face of this incredible logical prowess.

Oh wait, here it comes:

The difference is that those people are not singling you out for any special comments or treatment.

Hold up a second, hot shot.  Nobody was singled out by either Helena or me.  No names were mentioned.  No fingers were pointed.  Only behaviors and trends were discussed.  So there is still no difference.

MTP Jeff
They are going about their lives and minding their own business, while you are singling them out for insults, and somehow claiming that by being themselves they ruin the forum for you.

"Being themselves??"  You call sucking on pacifiers, wearing pigtails, and talking like illiterate morons "being themselves?"  More evidence of your low opinion of these young women.  I'll admit I'm not fond of most of them, but I'd never stoop to suggest that this childish behavior reflects their true nature.

MTP Jeff
They are not in any way engaging you, while you are here commenting on behavior that has literally nothing to do with you.

Oh, so commenting on forum behavior is now against the rules?  And again, this coming from a guy who needlessly bullies people with strong-arm tactics to behave the way he wants them to behave. 

MTP Jeff
Your point of view is that by existing here at all, they are somehow ruining your experience of the forum.

Nobody said a damn thing about the existance of any people.  That's not what makes the forum unpalatable. It's specific trends and behaviors as outlined in the opening post.  I suggest you re-read it, as there is no mention of any specific individuals.

MTP Jeff
Theirs is that they just want to be left alone by you and the people who find, defying all reason and sense, their use of binkies at private functions, intolerable.

Riiight.  Because what better way to be "left alone" then to post their own personal inanities for the entire forum to see.  Jeff you're the quintessential hypocrite.  "Defying all reason and sense"?  You are attacking Helena specifically, and yet you claim not to tolerate this very behavior that you yourself exhibit in each and every one of your idiotic statements. 

MTP Jeff
That's why your behavior is intolerable, and theirs is just fine. Theirs doesn't single you out, and yours does single them out.

Any time you feel like explaining how expressing opinions on behavioral trends on the forum singles out anybody, you just feel free.  And you are still talking about MULTIPLE people being SINGLEd out.  There's a glaring contradiction you've yet to resolve.

MTP Jeff
But of course, everyone reading this knows that this is just another instance of you acting innocent while actually being provocative and insulting. I only responded to show how utterly retarded your attempt to trap me was, not because I give any credibility to the ridiculous shit you come up with to try and cause trouble.

LOL. Why would I want or need to "trap" you when you trip over your own ego and hypocrisy with every post you make?  For as long as you've been and continue to be in charge you've given yourself too much rope and you consistantly hang yourself without any help from me.

But now we come to the ultimate act of ego and hypocrisy...

MTP Jeff
With very real regret, I have banned Drew70 from the forum. It's clear that he is never going to stop with these trolling tactics.

I'm going to close this thread because I think it's run it's course and I don't want drew to become the new topic. I will make a public post detailing how this came about, and why, as soon as possible tonight, and I will answer any questions that people have as honestly as possible.

I'll just for now ask for a little patience while I put my thoughts together, and for people to believe when I say that I have resisted years of people pressuring me to ban drew70 from the TMF, and I always hoped it wouldn't come to this.

Well golly gee wiz Jeff,  why would anybody believe anything else?  Could it be the timing of this decision, right on the heals of yet another classic MTP meltdown?

Could they possibly be skeptical because your feigned reluctance doesn't quite line up with your hot-headed Tourettes-Syndrome approach to forum administration as seen in our last few encounters?

Perhaps it would surprise you to know that even a couple of the long-time respected media vendors in the community who've known me for a long time are questioning your motives as well as your ability to lead the community without bias.

You're losing it, Jeff.  But then again, that's what losers do.

Helena started a thread called Do You Refuse to Suck a Binky and hate the word PWN?  which culminates with Jeff's announcement of my permanent ban from the TMF.

Helena
I get the feeling that I'm one of the hold outs on the forum that enjoys tickling without sucking on a baby binky, or using the phrase PWN.

I'm definitely a heterosexual woman, and I don't live a submissive lifestyle. I'm just a lee. I like tickling with or without bondage. I just love tickling in general, and for the longest time, I've felt the freedom to enjoy this site in so many wonderful ways.

I used to really enjoy the tickling discussion, but since I'm not into the whole group scene, like going to "hump" and "omnomnom" everyone for a weekend grope, all loose and lite-like, I feel perhaps the site has changed enough to no longer meet my needs.

I have no idea how other people feel about the shift in culture on the forum, or even if it matters to anyone but me. I expect that this will be an unpopular post, and that I am in the minority.

MTP Jeff
I don't understand why you care so much what other people are doing?

I laughed hard at this, coming from a guy who has made it his business to venture far beyond reasonable administrative boundaries to police what people do on the TMF.  This is a new plateau of hypocrisy, even for him. 

And besides, isn't what other people do on a forum pretty much the reigning criterea by which we decide if that forum is suitable for us?

Helena
I care about the forum, and the other people on it. I have made some nice friends here, and I've noticed many changes in culture here. Seeing how others act and behave has made me evaluate what I do and do not want for myself.

When I visit the forum, why should I not look at what others are doing?

Capnmad
Well, really, that's the reason we're here, isn't it? To find folks of similar interests. We gather here to find people who feel the same way we do, and do the same things we do -- people with whom we share something.

As dissimilarities emerge and become more prominently expressed or even reach fad level, it's only reasonable to expect some questioning with regard to whether or not one truly belongs here.

Helena is doing what she should in reaction -- she's expressing herself. And in so doing, she'll find more folks who feel the same way, she'll sense greater unity again, and balance will be achieved.

Ebb and flow, folks.

MTP Jeff
Well I guess what I meant was, how does the fact that people do or don't use words you don't use, or suck on a binky, change whether the forum meets your needs?

I don't understand how it impacts you in any way...

Understand that last year, the binky/pacifier craze was all over the TMF ad nausem. There was literally no way to avoid impact except by avoiding the discussion forums altogether.  Jeff's entire posture here is nothing short of ridiculous.  As if he's never ever made mention of things people do on the TMF that he finds annoying.  He does this very thing in his next post...

MTP Jeff
Let me explain, if I can, what bugs me about this thread. It's the notion that the way someone else acts can somehow ruin the forum for you. Believe me when I tell you, there are plenty of people on this forum who conduct themselves in ways that I don't like.

And I'll be honest with you, it annoys me a little bit when people use huge, purple letters to post.  But that's just me... you have a right to act however you want here, and when you do, it doesn't change my experience in any way except that when I see a post by you, I might think to myself "Well that's not how I would do it if I were her."

And I just can't get behind this idea that somehow someone else using the word pwn, or even more remote, sucking on a binky, changes anything for you. How, sincerely, does it affect your forum experience in any way that people suck on a binky in real life? I'm pretty sure there's no answer to that question, and that's a big part of why this thread has me scratching my head.

Helena
Jeff,
As owner of the website, I'll answer your question in more depth with respect in pm if you'd care to.
I feel like more and more of an outsider as the TMF incorporates many new subcultures, and I'm sure you are making fun of me and my purple lettering right now. That's part of the problem I think for me. If I'm not into all the latest trends, how dare I ask a question about it.
I guess where I once felt all nice and comfy I know feel unsure where I fit.

MTP Jeff
I'm not making fun of you, I'm trying to point out that everyone does things that are, to someone else, different or weird or not the way they would do it.

QB Weaver
ok. I'm feeling a bit out of touch. Who the heck is sucking binkies in the TMF group and why? And what the heck does pwn stand for?

drew70
At a few recent gatherings, a certain circle of young ladies for whatever reason seem to take delight in sporting pigtails and binkies. Here on the forum, they talk to each other in baby talk.

Jeff and Bella support and protect any trendy direction towards which these girls would steer the forum, and as you can see in this thread, Jeff will basically growl and snarl at anybody daring to cast aspersions on such trends.

"Pwn" is a typo of "own" that caught on and has been absorbed into today's bastardization of English popular among eighth graders and certain TMF members. It's one example of many disturbing trends emerging here.

slacker2114
What's so disturbing about it? I mean, honestly what does it hurt? It's no different than in the 70's, you sported an afro and said "groovy" and all that. It's just new slang, which is changed every few years. Some can keep up, some just rattle their walkers and bitch.

And so what if they wear pigtails and suck pacifiers and all that? Who does it hurt? They're enjoying and celebrating their fetish in a way of their own choosing with people they love and trust. If you don't do things the same way they do, it doesn't make them, or you for that matter, wrong. It just makes you different. It's called individuality and the majority of us have it.

drew70
Well, I can only tell you what I personally find disturbing. We're a community of adults, at least in theory. Tickling isn't overtly sexual for me, but I'm in the minority. For most it's sexual or at the very least, erotic. When some of the members emulate the appearance of childhood, well do I really have to spell it out for you? I've been to many gatherings, and have interacted with people of wildly differing predilections, but if I were at a gathering and that shit started up, I'd be out of there pronto.

As for the "slang," I've always been a proponent of individuality and distinction, but there is an art to it. And not all art is good art. To me, there is no art or originality whatsoever in deliberate misspellings, lazy abbreviations, and baby talk.

Bottom line, if we're to be a forum in which ideas are freely expressed, than Helena and others like her ought to be free to express their feelings without administrative intimidation, just as those who embrace these trends are free to do.

Slacker2114
And it's your right to leave just as it's their right to do what they feel is fun. No one makes you leave, you choose that on your own.

For fuck's sake, why can't we just let each other BE ourselves without fear of someone attacking them?

I've been asking the same question for years.  Why can't we be ourselves and say what we want without fear of someone deleting or or banning us?

MTP Jeff
Exactly. This is the thing that gets me up in arms. A certain group of people is trying to make the forum intolerable for another group, because they don't like the way they talk and act. It makes me defensive, and frankly, it won't be tolerated here.

drew70
I understand that attacking people on the TMF violates forum policy. I'm a big believer in following the rules, so I consistently refrain from doing this.

MTP Jeff
No you aren't, and no you don't, and if you drag your personal bullshit into this thread, you're going to be excluded from it.

Wow.  Evidently what I say and do seems to have an impact on Jeff.  I just don't understand how that can be!

drew70
In THIS thread, I don't see anybody being attacked until Skip told Helena to "shut the hell up."

Skipadeedoodah
Correction: I suggested that everyone with ignorant comments either educate themselves OR shut the hell up. I didn't single anybody out

Correction right back at you, Skipper:  You mentioned Helena by name...

Skipadeedoodah
In a nutshell, you don't know what your'e talking about Helena...so my suggestion to you and everyone else with ignorant comments is to either educate yourselves, or shut the hell up.

unclebill
hmmm....so I suppose the only way to get educated is to attend one of these gatherings, eh??? Helena never mentioned any names in her posts, she was only expressing her opinion. You have no right to flame her like this. Perhaps you should remove your Barney Fife deputy moderator badge. It seems to be cutting off the circulation.

Tamia78
WTF? Helena can't express personal feelings without getting jumped on? Since when did certain people become "forum police"? Perhaps those of you who feel that Helena is personally attacking people feel a bit guilty for "excluding" those not "in the know"? Lord knows we all have different people as friends on here. There are some people on the forum I just can't relate to. Sure, we're nice to each other, but for some reason, we're just not as close as we are with other people.

And STOP saying that crap about "if you wanna feel included, then post" bullshit. Because it's just crap.

I'm sorry for being so bitter and rude, but Miss Helena is a friend of mine, and it bothers me to see so many people (whom I know to normally be really nice folks) jump on the same damn bandwagon because a few people don't agree with the collective.

Tamia, you are spot on, baby. 

drew70
I've reported similar GR violations that received no action whatsoever. So, I suspect it would be more accurate to say that such behavior will be selectively tolerated.

Neither Helena nor I attacked anybody. We expressed opinions about trends and behaviors. The expression of such opinions has been "tolerated" since day one at the TMF. If this has now changed, then may I suggest a reiteration of the posted rules for the benefit of those who don't happen to read this particular thread?

Moreover, if you're going to police anything that makes the forum "intolerable" for others, then perhaps it's a good thing that we all make mention of that which we find intolerable.

Euphoricy
I'm pretty sure MTP Jeff gave CrystalLight and Brighteyes (and maybe Tortuga?) pacifiers that said "Mute Button" on them as a gag gift...and it just progressed from there.

Ahh...so the whole Binky thing was started by none other than MTP Jeff.  That alone explains his hostility.  Somebody dared to criticize one of his ideas. 

Coming up next:  One of the best responses to the clique in this thread.

Recap:  fttickler posted this thread which recounts a blog post by Cid denouncing the TMF's moderaters, admins, and clique hierarchy.  Slacker charged to the rescue.

Next we have Viper, who wins the TMF's Asshole of the Month award weekly.

ViperGTS
Secondly, for those of you who consider MTP Jeff to be someone who has a hot head and a quick temper, you should really silence your pie hole if you know not of which you speak.

Viper talks like a tough guy because like Jeff, he's got LMS (Little Man Syndrome) in a big sort of way.  Like most online tough talkers, he's a pussy in real life.  I know this because I've given him the opportunity to back up his tough talk in person.  He wussed out.

ViperGTS
You have no idea how long some of these issues are dealt with behind the scenes, or how long things are allowed to last and fester before a moderator decides to step in. I personally have witnessed the various moderators, including Myriads and Jeff, exhibit incredible acts of patience and tolerance. For one,despite issues with Drew still have yet to get him banned, and this has been going on for months, maybe even years. I've personally talked with Jeff in person and the amount of restraint he uses to keep things from exploding is, in a word, herculean.

"Personally talked with Jeff in person."  Gee, who could argue with those credentials?  And "Herculean restraint?"   You'd think that Viper totally missed Jeff's rabid dog impersonations in the last thread we discussed, except he was present throughout it.  The only things I find Herculean about Jeff are his ego and his capacity for self aggrandizement.

Dr. Vollin
Beyond that - you say that rant from Cid/drew70 came off a Myspace page. I have to wonder what the point of copying and pasting it here is. I'm no fan of drew70 myself, but as long as that particular rant wasn't posted on TMF he's entitled to express his opinions.

I belong to several other forums and I've seen it happen where people will drag their arguments from one board to another, so the mods have to step in and say "Keep your pissing matches from over there off of our forum." I don't know you, but frankly it looks like you're doing just that. If drew70 is being a prick on the TMF, by all means call him on it. But if he repeats his stuff elsewhere, it's up to him and those admins. Didn't drew's thread on rules stir up enough shit; do you have to add more?

This is the first mention of somebody assuming that Cid was me, except that I suspect Viper may have made the accusation in the first half of his post that was deleted by QJakal.

P[a]pi
I could be wrong, but I don't think CidAgain is drew cus I know drew has a drew70 acct over at TT. I don't see why he would pose as somebody else. Also, Cid's blog sounds nothing like drew.

ViperGTS
Haven't been paying attention to the recent controversies on the TMF, have you?

He's been threatening to make a blog post about recent happenings over here for a few days.

It's him. Trust me.

CrystalLight
Well, at least it's showing how much of a coward he is. And of all places to run to-- myspace?? Are you kidding me? What is he, 12??

Bitching about 'net-tard' but uses his myspace page to bitch and whine?

If it hadn't been posted here now, it would've been circling via the grapevine. So, frankly it's nice that it's here for everyone to see. And if I remember correctly, Drew70 posted a message similar to what I'm saying here..

drew70 (grossly misquoted)
This blah blah could have, blah blah blah and should have been worked out in that thread, but I was wahh wahh bullied into silence under warbargarballllll threat of banishment. So now, I've got all these people blah blah coming to me in private blargaraaaaaa asking what the verdict is. They ask me blah blah blah blah privately because they are afraid of Jeff. Afraid of being blah bullied. Afraid of being banned. They deserve a straight answer and Jeff has finally delivered it.

Now-- just take out the name 'Jeff' at the end and input 'Drew70' and you've got it!

Damn and I thought there was some fancy, self-hosted blog. Myspace... gowd.

Now, why isn't this posted by the assumed person here? Easy-- his ass would've gotten shut down. Moving it elsewhere, clever or ignorant? You decide.

The point is, if you take a simple walk back and view all the interactions he has with folks that he doesn't like, it might not be blindingly obvious.. but it's still apparent that he's causing trouble.

And, hey, if he can share pieces of PM's on mainboard with everyone-- then his lil' bloggie post can be put up. He's done that with more then one person before in attempts to be clever.

Like This one.

Bet y'all didn't even see that one, eh? Looks like a harmless lil' story, dunnit?

As per the statements of: "weeeell it can't be himmmm..." -- thankfully this person choose Myspace as an outlet, because tracing to find out who exactly it is would be practically effortless.

And common sense says: Irony! A thread that started a shit storm is followed up by a blog post from a random person who has intimate knowledge and opinions of the TMF and it's Moderation Staff.

Irony still: Blog post..already threatened to be done...by...who. You tell me.

Kis123
I personally don't think it is Drew; why throw the rock and hide your hand?

CrystalLight
To avoid a permaban

Kis123
It isn't drew; just wait until the culprit is exposed......it will NOT be drew! I'll bet my five+ years on this forum on that very fact.

All this was going on without my having noticed it at all.  Right about this point, somebody (I can't remember who) PM'd me with the link, and I entered the thread at last.

drew70
I am not CID, never have been CID and likely will never be CID. Wherever that rant came from, I didn't put it there, so those claiming it was me are quite full of shit, though that's not exactly breaking news.

Nor does it shock me in the slightest that others see the cliquishness plainly visible except to those unwilling to pause their wanton inveigling of the moderators and each other long enough to take an honest look.

The difference between CID and me is simple. In his rant he says, "The TMF stands for 'Tickling Media Forum'...and it's run by two morons." I do not and have never regarded Myriads as a moron. He and I have radically different philosophies regarding forum interaction, and I've objected vehemently to some of his calls, but the man's intellect and compassion cannot be denied.

I have a MySpace page devoted to my music. There's no blog on it. My blog is not part of MySpace or Facebook. I started it back in June when I was banned, as I wanted an outlet to write the way I want to write without worrying about some somebody coming along and deleting me.

It's true that in a recent thread I announced that I was taking screen captures, since all too often really good threads get deleted. That one survived, so I have no reason to post my screen caps elsewhere.

Looks like our resident TMF gumshoe flails yet again.

CrystalLight
lawl.

Silly Drew.

Whether or not my mention of the handle perhaps being you is true or not; the facts of how you are, are accurate.

drew70
LOL. No shit, Sherlock. The facts about me are accurate. The facts about you and everybody else are also accurate. If they weren't accurate, they wouldn't be facts, now would they? 

One glaring fact I see here is that you failed miserably in your attempt to pin this on me.

Another is that you engage in the slanderous practice of quoting somebody and editing their words, like you did here...

Emphasizing portions of a quote is one thing. But you cross a line when you go as far as substituting words to make your point. What's really pathetic is when you do it anyway and still fail to make one.

KrazieDog
This shouldn't have been posted here in the first place. He can keep his sad pathetic whining in his blog. He continues to come here all the time anyway, so the hypocrite can cry to all 4 of his fans, all he wants there in his blog, but it does not need to be brought here for it to act as bad seed material for people who have no clue to his constant shady underhanded dealings.

drew70
Hold on just a second. Watch who you call a hypocrite, that's a pretty goddamn offensive thing to say considering what a ridiculously trivial issue this is.

KrazieDog
On the mods side, "some" people continually think they have a legal rule book that dictates how they "have" to act in every situation and how they are soooo unfair, blah blah blah. Reality is, the restraint they show is magnanimous, as the majority of people here, would have kicked a lot of trouble makers a loooooong time ago. A bad seed is a bad seed and when left alone, will contaminate others. As for the clique thing, it's as silly now as it's always been. Make friends or be lonely and whine about it, period. You get what you give to people, but judging them from the outside without making the effort is just sad.

drew70
And then there are "other" people. Those with their heads buried so far up the collective ass of the administration, they can play tonsil hockey. When they're not polishing administrative sphincters with their silver tongues, they keep busy by shmoozing and hound-dogging the women of the forum. Such people are incapable of original thought and so they just ride the mainstream, regurgitating the silly memes that were last year's rage, campaigning for greater popularity. Does it get any sadder than that?

KrazieDog
Are you now complaining about a "silver tongue".

drew70
Nope. Just making an observation. I actually find it quite amusing, like watching one of "those" guys in a bar. You know the type. Garish attire, wears a toupee or combover, too much cologne, and one of those lecherous grins that says, "Little girls, beware." Hits on every woman that walks into the place.

But what can we do, K-Dog? People will be who they are. I guess you and I will just have to learn to live with them, eh? How about a beer, pal?

KrazieDog
I'd also prefer if you didn't call me pal in case some new member that doesn't know any better sees this and thinks I somehow think of you in any way but as scum.

drew70
Hold on just a second. Watch who you call scum, that's a pretty goddamn offensive thing to say considering what a ridiculously trivial issue this is!

A short time after the explosive battle between MTP Jeff and myself (See previous blog entry: ToMuchFavoritism), a long time TMF'er named fttickler posted a thread called Ignorant People in which he showcases a blog rant from somebody identified as "Cid." 

Now, I happen to know Cid.  He and I see eye to eye on many things.  "Cid" is of course just a pseudonym.  The guy actually is one of the forums "respected" contributors.  Many would be shocked to know who he really is.  But he doesn't want his popular name to get banned, so he posts as "Cid" when he wants to make a point that will be predictably censored. I know who Cid is, but I will take that information to the grave with me.  The Dead Letter Office is sacrosanct.

fttickler
I was trotting around the forums ( both here and on TT ) and came across this posted by someone there called "CidAgain" and on myspace as "Cid" You may want to give this guy a wide berth. This came off his myspace site:

Cid
The TMF- Tuesday, November 11, 2008

The TMF stands for 'Tickling Media Forum' and is a nice place to visit, until you realize what utter shit it actually is. The place is filled with cliques and it's ran by two morons who will happily run the entire site into the ground. The tickling media forum or TMF is a large forum where a community of tickling enthusiasts come together to discuss what they love the most. Tickling.

Unfortunately this forum is plagued by several problems. Most of which will be discussed here in my first rant.

The first problem! Cliques.

The problem with cliques, or group of friends, or the inner circle is that no one can decide whether or not a clique truly exists. There are people who are against cliques that say they don't exist and do exist. There are people inside the cliques that say they don't exist and do exist. So no one really knows whether or not they truly are around. Well ladies and gentlemen they are. They exist. And they have a tendency to run people away from the forum because they think they have every right to. And trust me they think they have the right to control who posts and who doesn't.

Most of the time when people try to post a thread about something they believe in strongly someone will object. And they will insult you in various ways. If you dare retaliate or don't change your mind on the subject others come to tell you what a moron you really are. Go even further and a few moderators descend on you like a plague and tell you to keep things civil.

Note From Ranter: I'm going to break out of my rant for a second to touch on something very important. I find it strange a moderator would tell people, on a fetish forum no less to keep things civil. The reason I find it strange is because every other post your going to find a big boobed naked woman being tickled by other big boobed naked woman. And it's on a fetish website where most of us explore the sites many threads with stiff dicks. Civil was tossed out the window a long time ago.

But every once in a while the administrators will descend upon you. They seem to do that a lot when it comes to the bread and butter of their forum. Now what is the problem with this? Well most of the time this occurs when nothing bad has actually happened. I don't think I've seen one post where anyone can have a debate without a mod or admin poking their unwanted heads into the mess and spouting some bullshit about keeping it civil.

And it's because of all these random people jumping down your throat about your opinion or belief that lead people to believe there are cliques.

The second problem! Moderators

Moderators on the TMF are a mixed bunch. Most of the time you find half-way decent moderators you don't even know are moderators until they actually post. Than you find these power hungry moderators who swoop in like batman and leave everyone in shambles. The funny thing about TMF moderators is the fact that the TMF can't keep them for very long.

The third problem! Admins

This is the part of my rant I was looking forwards to. Because it discusses my two favorite admins. MTP and Myriads. If anyone's been on the TMF very long they probably have heard of these two. If you haven't well… Good for you. The problem with these two is the fact that they are admins that obviously have no idea what an admin actually does. For those who are scratching your heads in wonder here's the definition…

1. administration: the administrative work involved in running a business or organization

 

2. administrative assistant: an administrative assistant

Running a business or organization doesn't mean giving your biased opinions and throwing your 'self given' power in peoples faces. Myriads unfortunately knows how to cover his tracks pretty well. So I had a difficult time finding a good, damning post. MTP on the other hand skipped that course and leaves his messages wide open so everyone can see. Here's a nice message and I also took a screen shot just in case the messages mysteriously vanishes.

http://www.ticklingforum.com/showthr...578post1864578

Pay attention to post number 9 Read this statement here.

"You won't find a more even-handed forum on the Internet. For example, I don't like you, and I wish you would go away. But I don't throw you out, even though I could."

First he says the TMF is even-handed, than he proceeds to tell the guy he doesn't like him and wish he would go away. Lastly he says he could throw him out but won't. And of course the entire post is based around my favorite subject! CLIQUES!

Cliques do exist once again. The 'Tickler in Black' aka 'TIB' is a great example of that. If anyone remembers his many posts they know the guy received preferable treatment. But don't just look at post 9 or even the first post. Look at post 10 and 12 This is a prime example of a clique. Someone dares to agree with the guy and MTP jumps his case.

This statement….

"I find myself in agreement with Drew. Very well put sir."

Get's this response…

"I would love to see evidence that anyone here is required to kiss anyone else's ass.

The only thing we require is that people not be assholes, and not single others out for mistreatment. Some people can't handle being told not to do that, and they think it means the person they want to harass is getting special treatment.

Try singling someone else out for that kind of treatment and see what you get, you'll quickly discover how even-handed we are about that."

MTP certainly tries to sing a pretty tune here, but this statement…

"You won't find a more even-handed forum on the Internet. For example, I don't like you, and I wish you would go away. But I don't throw you out, even though I could."

Resounds a little louder.

Not only that but 3 different moderators respond to this message. Everyone is so focused on what one guy and have nothing to say about his threat. That is another prime example of a clique. These people can say anything they want and no one even bats an eyelash. Now I ask you, what would happen if someone said the exact same thing MTP said? They would get banned.

Well I'm going to wrap things up for now. Next time I'm going to find more examples of cliques on the TMF.

For now. Goodbye!

PS. I have captured a few more screenshots. You can check them out in the images section.

If the post to which Cid refers sounds familiar, that's because I've covered it in a previous blog entry:  "MTP Jeff's opinion poll on TMF vs AMT."  Since Jeff's comments that Cid quotes were directed at me, you'll see in this thread people begin to erroneously accuse/assume that Cid and drew70 are the same person.  And of course, the clique defending White Knights have to run to Jeff's defense.

Slacker2114
Wow. Just....wow. It's amazing what happens when someone feels they're "not a part of the popular crowd". What, do they think they're still in high school?

It's even more amazing how the clique mentality interprets any criticism as jealousy or sour grapes brought on by feelings of exclusion.  They are so hopelessly convinced that clique inclusion makes them cool or special that they are incapable of stepping back and seeing the bigger picture.  Namely, that most of the people not in the clique don't want to be in it!

Slacker2114
Cid seems like the type who'd get his panties in a bunch because women weren't falling all over him because he posted maybe 5 times tops and lurked in the chatroom, sending IMs to every female name that entered the room and got summarily rejected.

Slacker is a sad case.  For years, the guy was his own person, and didn't care what anybody thought of him.  He gave his honest opinions and sucked up to nobody.  Then he started getting the big head when Crystal Light and some of the younger babes paid him some attention.  Now he's no better than Krazie Dog, inveigling the babes of the forum as well as the admins.  He's completely entrenched in the clique mentality.  I fear there is no hope for him.

Still covering that amazing thread Are images of underage cartoon characters now permitted on the TMF?

So far, I've been concentrating on the cataclysmic dialogue between MTP Jeff and myself.  As we start to wind down, let's have a look at what some others had to say, as it's very telling about their character.

CrystalLight
Is it just me, or am I the only one seeing that the only reason this thread was created was to stir up shit?

Any qualms or issues could've been taken to PM's. And if well known posters who just do shit to cause issues and problems aren't getting the answers they desire, then maybe they should take that as a reflection of their behavior and how they treat the forum and the people in it.

drew70
It's you, Crystal. Everyone that's actually read my OP will see that I TRIED to take this to Jeff in PM. He in fact told me to do so, and when I did, he came back with, "I was lying when I said that. I have no interest in discussing this with you."

If he had discussed it with me privately as he said he would, this thread would not have happened. But he lied, and so here we are.

TKLMAN
I don't really have any history w/drew70. I can't say that I've ever had a problem w/him or experienced any "run-ins" w/him as long as I've been a member of this forum.

Being that I am a TMFer , though , I'd have to be pretty blind to not see that drew70 does not get along w/many other members here & vice-versa.

Still , there have been times that I've agreed w/what he's said in certain posts in any number of threads.

So , as a "bystander" & as someone who doesn't have any previous animosity towards you , drew70 , you should know that I haven't any "agenda" against you.

But I gotta say , man , I think this :

drew70
I'll issue you the same challenge I've always issued. Show me any example of where I've broken the posted rules of this forum. The truth is you CAN'T. You never have, and you never will. Even now I'm maintaining the established forum protocol which you discard at your every whim. You continually boast of how "even handed" you are, but you are at best an ill-tempered loose cannon and everybody knows it. Your Geshtapo strong-arm tactics are seen by all, Jeff. Every time you shut me up with flimsy excuses of being "off topic" EVERYBODY sees it. You refuse to face me in open debate. You always hide behind your admin status and use it to your every advantage. Every time I bring an issue your way, you lose your temper and refuse to deal with it. I've never seen a forum admin behave as disgracefully as you have, and you've brought shame on this entire forum.

... makes it fairly clear that MTP Jeff hit the nail on head here :

MTP Jeff
Because I know that the real reason you started it isn't that you care about that picture. It's because you love to find opportunities like this, to bust balls and make things as difficult as possible. You love to find seeming contradictions like this and make huge deals out of them.

TKLMAN might have had a valid point if my comment that he quoted just came out of the blue.  But it didn't.  It was a counter-punch to Jeff calling me an "irredeemable, unrelenting asshole." 

You're clearly not stupid , drew70 ... you seem like a pretty smart cookie. I think you were able to "get" the true intention & see the humor of the cartoon that BellaRisa posted.

drew70
Yes, of course I "got" it. If you'll look back on post #28 of this thread you'll see I acknowledged it. I wasn't questioning her intentions. Even in Bella's thread I said that I wasn't offended by the picture. That was never the issue with me. The issue was that it violated standing rules. Bella's moderator status compounded the issue. There seems to be an unwritten rule that moderators by the very nature of their position can do no wrong. And yet here it was happening before our very eyes.

TKLMAN
But like MTP Jeff stated , I think you saw an opportunity in that to kinda "stick it to him" a little. I think that you're upset over how you've been treated by him in the past ... justifiably so or not ... & decided to start a thread to stir the pot , so to speak.

drew70
I'll not deny there's emnity between us. At this point that's the understatement of the year. And I'll admit I took some pleasure in exposing Jeff's duplicity. But that doesn't change the fact that this whole thing could have been easily avoided if Jeff had simply answered to the matter in Bella's thread or in PM.

TKLMAN
I think you like to debate. I think the thrill of a good , heated debate really does something for you ... & that's all fine.

But , dude , you've gotta know that you're gonna be pressing people's buttons when you start threads like this. As I said , you're a smart guy ... I'm sure this doesn't escape your attention.

drew70
Yes, I knew it would be pressing people's buttons, but I felt it was an important enough issue to press for a straight answer. That's all I was looking for.

TKLMAN
This thread is less about that pic & more about calling out the mods & satisfying your need for debate.

All that being said ... wow. The intensity of the responses have made for some really engaging drama for all of us reading. I don't want to say it's been fun ... but , well , who can't turn away from watching a good rumble?!

drew70
I have mixed feelings about it. On the one hand, I started out determined not to be drawn into yet another condescending diatribe concerning my behavior, my agenda, etc. Clearly I failed in this endeavor.

On the other hand I finally was able to say some things I've wanted to say for a long time, so some good came of it.

I've already been told by several that this is the best thread they've ever seen on this forum.

TklDuo-Ann
I had planned to stay out of this. But, I can no longer do so. However, this will be my ONLY response.

First off. I agree that the pic should not have been allowed to remain. While it's cute and was posted innocently, it IS a violation. Had I been in Jeff's place, I'd likely have made the same quick decision on the fly to allow it. But, I'd likely have gone back to remove it (or more likely asked Bella to do so) later on after considering it further. Why? It depicts a character who is a minor in a BDSM theme...something most of us would consider to be sexual.

Should the rule remain as is? Should it be changed to allow for cartoon characters? That's a matter for debate. Personally, I'd probably err on the side of caution and leave it as is. But, that's coming from someone who was taken advantage of and abused as a minor. So, my view is scewed. The fact that cartoon characters are not "real" people changes that for some. For me, it does not. But, that's me.

That having been said, Drew, I think that this IS largely about your attitude. You enjoy a heated debate. There's nothing wrong with that. But, when you go around looking for things to bitch about, it makes YOU look bad. You say that this thread wouldn't have been started had Jeff responded to the original complaint. In fact, he DID respond. The fact that you obviously didn't like or agree with the response doesn't change that.

drew70
He didn't respond with any useful information, Ann. If he'd said, "It's not a violation because....." or "Yes, it's a violation but I'm letting it stand because...." then that would have been a response.

Instead, he responded by suggesting that since Bella is a moderator, anything she posts should not be questioned. He then invited me to discuss it with him in PM. When I did, he said, "I was lying when I said that. I have no interest in discussing this with you."

This left unanswered questions. Are these types of pictures okay to post now? Hell, at this point I didn't even know if Jeff considered Bella's cartoon a violation which he chose to let slide, or whether he would take her stance and insist the girl was adult in the picture.

He didn't give any kind of thoughtful response until others began calling for one, which didn't happen and wouldn't have happened until this thread was started. Sorry if that offends you Ann, but I'm not the one you need to be talking to.

TklDuo-Ann
As for this thread being the best several have seen...? I'd consider it to be the worst, not the best. It effectively illustrates the bulldog mentality of your attitude. That isn't something I'd be bragging about. You have no idea how much you ruin other people's experience by acting the way you do. (And I admit that you aren't the only one who does it.)

Agree or disagree. That's your choice. But, quit the pissing contests! It's getting old! Grow up and get a fucking life!!!

Midol, anybody?  I find this amazing.  All this anger at me for bringing up an issue that she herself admits is valid.  Yet not a word to Jeff, who lost his temper early in the thread, called me an asshole and a troll, called jim66e a social retard, and is solely responsible for turning the thread into a fight. 

Venray
I too was staying as far away from this as possible but must agree with Ann's assessment....

Drew...Something was posted that you had an issue with....Jeff responded as to why he let it go...you in your infinite lack of wisdom chose yet again not to accept the decision made by not just a moderator but the owner of the forum...

drew70
Read above, pal. Better yet, read the threads in question.

Venray
It is the mods decision to make not yours or mine....not always an easy call, but once the call is made to publicly post a thread including pm discussion just shows the blatant disregard you have always had for anyone's feelings but your own.

drew70
If you'll look back Ray, you'll see than I never challenged his decision to let the picture stay. I know he's the forum owner, and I've never questioned his authority. Merely his attitude, behavior and temperment. All I asked for was a confirmation of the rules and to whom they apply. It was a question not only asked by me but echoed by others as well, so what you're saying here is completely without substance or merit.

Venray
You have been trying to turn this forum into the old AMT style flamefests of the past ever since you became a member and if you dont like it here ,and dont like to try and get along , and insist on constantly harassing others you dislike for whatever reason, then just do yourself a favor and start your own forum somewhere else. The world and the internet will be a better place I am sure.

drew70
That's very flattering Ray, but I think you overstate my impact on the world and the Internet. And who is harrassing who here? You come in just to take your shot and then leave?

And since you brought it up, AMT was bar none, hands down, THE best tickling forum on the Internet...EVER. And Bob Hare, God rest his soul, was the King of forum administration.

Venray
Everyone will be better off. I know you will reply in your usual style, but I'll not be revisiting this thread so pm me if you have anything of value to say.

drew70
If you wanted a PM you should have approached me in PM. Make sense? You'll either read this response or you won't. Life goes on.

Notice yet again, we have outrage over my "audacity" to start this thread, yet not a word regarding Jeff's torrential tribute to Tourette's.  None of these people have the hairs to call Jeff out on his appalling behavior. 

We last left off with Jeff calling me an asshole and deriding me for not being grateful for all the times he DIDN'T ban me for all of my "transgressions" of which he can't name a single one.  At this point, I decided to let him have it.

drew70
I'll issue you the same challenge I've always issued. Show me any example of where I've broken the posted rules of this forum. The truth is you CAN'T. You never have, and you never will. Even now I'm maintaining the established forum protocol which you discard at your every whim. You continually boast of how "even handed" you are, but you are at best an ill-tempered loose cannon and everybody knows it. Your Geshtapo strong-arm tactics are seen by all, Jeff. Every time you shut me up with flimsy excuses of being "off topic" EVERYBODY sees it. You refuse to face me in open debate. You always hide behind your admin status and use it to your every advantage. Every time I bring an issue your way, you lose your temper and refuse to deal with it. I've never seen a forum admin behave as disgracefully as you have, and you've brought shame on this entire forum.

 

MTP Jeff
I specifically said you're a line walker, that you don't break the rules, instead you exploit them to create problems that you think you can't be held accountable for.

 

drew70
If I'm following the rules and there are still problems, then doesn't it stand to reason that there is a problem with the rules? That they aren't clear and concise, but in fact deliberately vague, in order to justify punitive actions?

 

MTP Jeff
The rules are left vague and flexible because we know in advance that no matter WHAT the rules are, someone will come along and exploit them to find loopholes that allow them to violate the spirit of the forum.

 

drew70
Once again. How can you expect people to behave the way you want them when you deliberately make your expectations vague and undefined?

 

MTP Jeff
You are such a person, and the rules cannot cover the situations you've created. Therefore we have to deal with you as an anomaly. And having spent a ridiculous amount of time discussing you, we've concluded that you cannot be stopped from your relentless troublemaking.

 

drew70
You can't even demonstrate where I've made trouble even once. You refuse to take responsibility for the shortcomings of your vague and indefinable "rules." You take action based on complaints and appeasing your friends that don't like what I have to say, even though what I have to say consistently falls inside of forum guidelines.

 

MTP Jeff
As for an open debate, I literally don't know what the hell you're talking about. What are we going to debate, whether or not you're an asshole? I think we both know where we stand on that issue.

 

drew70
Yes, we do agree. We agree that you regard yourself above the rules you insist everybody else but you follow. Hence you calling me an asshole on numerous occasions, not to mention several other violations here in this thread and elsewhere.

 

MTP Jeff
You've exhausted my patience to the point where I no longer consider it possible to discuss things with you as if you were a rational human whose point of view can be changed by conversation. You LIKE being an asshole, and you openly talk about wishing this forum were unmoderated so you could be an even bigger jerk.

 

drew70
I never said that. I said I wish the forum were unmoderated so we can experience actual freedom of speech without worrying about Big Brother looming over our heads. That's another thing I could never understand. You get so offended whenever I chaffe at the rampant censorship. What in God's name do you think is going to be so attractive about having you control what I'm allowed to say?

 

MTP Jeff
The truth that you're not saying here because it doesn't serve your purposes, is that I've tried to talk to you about this a dozen times, and so has almost every moderator here at some point or another.

 

I now know, because of constant experience with you, that debate and discussion are useless, and even if you claim to agree with me and say that you understand, you will immediately turn around, act worse than ever, stab me in the back, and then blink innocently when called out on it.

 

You've exhausted your chances to debate with me on this subject drew.

 

drew70

Oh you've talked to me alright. But it's always been one way, Jeff. Whenever I try to defend what I said or did, you lose your temper and say things like, "I've had it with your bullshit. I wash my hands of you." You are literally impossible to talk to, generally speaking.

And let's be real, here. You admit I don't break the rules, yet you pronounced a thirty day ban on me. A ban not for violations, but simply to appease those who call for my removal. Thirty-SEVEN days later I had to post in General under an alternate ID to get you to let me back in. You are quickly developing a history of not keeping your word, Jeff.

And yet you accuse ME of stabbing YOU in the back? Unbelievable.

 

MTP Jeff

The ban was for your entire presence here. By being here, you create non-stop problems, and no amount of discussion can reach you.

 

drew70
"non-stop problems" of which you've yet to provide a single example. Why don't you just come clean and admit that you play favoritism? Your clique doesn't like me. I don't like them or you. So you concoct all these fantasy "problems" to justify your actions against me. Your way of saying, "Hey guys, look what I said to drew70, hyuck hyuck. I showed him, didn't I?"

 

MTP Jeff
I've come to see clearly what you are, drew, and I know that you are beyond being reasoned with, and beyond any amount of explanation doing any good.

 

drew70
You are dead wrong there, Jeff. I am very reasonable. You just don't see it because you're too busy losing your temper and mustering your Geshtapo strong arm tactics. I started this thread with earnest intentions. You turned it into a flamefest, so don't talk to me about being unreasonable.

 

MTP Jeff
That's a lie drew, and it's why I don't bother debating and discussing things with you. You hide behind lies so constantly that it's impossible to deal with you as anything but a troll.

 

drew70
You're a fine one to be talking about lies, Jeff. No, what I said was the truth. And the fact that others agreed demonstrates that it was a valid point. You lied to me when you told me we could debate this privately. Your labels of troll, asshole, etc. are just meaningless drivel that you can't even back up. I've done everything by the book. I've followed all the rules. You on the other hand, tell people to "Shut the fuck up," call them assholes and other names. I don't do that. Because I'm not the troll on this forum. I follow the rules, and you know it.

Jeff's talk of spending inordinate amounts of time and effort trying to "reason" with me is not even an exaggeration.  It's flat out bullshit.  Until my 37-day ban was imposed last June, ALL of my dealings had been with Myriads.  The only reason I went to Jeff even then was because Myriads refused to respond to my inquiries.  Though Myriads shares Jeff's same skewed philosophy with regards to Forum rules, he at least maintains a cool head and actually listens to what you say.  He never budges on a decision, but at least I got the sense that Myriads believed he was doing the right thing.  Last June was THE FIRST time I'd ever approached Jeff about any administrative issues, and the tone of his response was much as you see it here. 

Recap: 
The TMF has a no-tolerance policy against the posting of fetish material involving minors.  Bella Risa, a TMF moderator, posted this image of a kindergarten aged girl dressed in sexy dominatrix attire in a sexually charged fetish scenario.  When I made mention in Bella's thread that the picture violates official TMF policy, I was irritably told by MTP Jeff not to discuss it in the thread further, but rather with him in private.  When I approached Jeff privately, he refused to talk about it.  Having no other alternative, I began my own thread to preclude Jeff's predictable excuses for censorship by reason of being "off-topic."  When others read about what happened, some began asking Jeff for explanations.  Jeff lost his temper and threw a tantrum.

So far, I'd been content to sit back and watch watch Jeff's meltdown with quiet amusement.  At this point, I decided to re-enter the conversation, quoting one of Jeff's earlier posts and commenting on it.

MTP Jeff
This was the most trivial imaginable rule violation that caused exactly zero harm and was controversial to nobody. I decided on the fly to let it slide because it was completely non-adult in any way, the way we might allow a picture of a minor who was feeding an elephant a peanut. Because we're reasonable people who know what matters and what doesn't and don't have to act like robots when a decision needs to be made, and there's no reason anyone should care about that. Drew just likes to nitpick and create constant problems, because we won't let him run around and harass people that he disagrees with.

drew70
I respectfully disagree. And I see you are already trying to turn this into a discussion of my behavior when I clearly requested this not be done.

I'll tell you exactly why this raised a red flag with me. The cartoon is by no means a trivial violation. I agree it is very cute, and very funny, but the bottom line is that it is sexual in nature. This is the kind of thing that can get the forum shut down.

The TMF staff worked hard and brooked a lot of objections when this rule was enacted, especially with regards to "aging" characters. I was on better terms with some of the mods in those days and I know that it was a real fiasco, which finally subsided.

Now I've given this some thought, and to be fair, Bella wasn't on staff at that time, nor have I seen her post any art, so it's possible and even understandable that she'd be unaware of this rule or the difficulty experienced in its initial enforcement. There's no doubt in my mind her intentions reached no further beyond posting something humorous.

This could have, and should have been worked out in that thread, but I was bullied into silence under threat of banishment. So now, I've got all these people coming to me in private asking what the verdict is. They ask me privately because they are afraid of Jeff. Afraid of being bullied. Afraid of being banned. They deserve a straight answer and Jeff has finally delivered it.

Let's all just move on.

MTP Jeff
Anyone who is afraid of being banned is really not paying any attention. You can just about count on one hand the number of people who have been banned from this forum in its eight year history.

Pay attention to what, exactly?  Most of Jeff's underhanded acts of Big Brother censorship go on behind closed doors and in secret.  Nobody gets a fair trial or even an opportunity to present a defense.  And given his highly questionable commitment to the truth, I don't believe those numbers for a second.

MTP Jeff
You have to really be an unredeemable, unchanging asshole completely without any redeeming qualities at all to get banned from the TMF. Just pissing me or another moderator off doesn't even come close.

That's certainly not true.  Jeff has unwittingly painted a near-perfect self portrait, yet nobody has banned him.  Moreover, it's nowhere near as difficult to get banned as Jeff would have us believe.  I was banned a total of 4 times.  Other people banned include Dodger, Neutron, Nostradamas, Richy Gitchy, CID, Punkrockergirl, jim666uk, Maniac Tickler, Babyshambles, and those are only the ones I know of. 

All anybody has to do to get banned from the TMF is to call attention to Crystal Light's attention-getting tactics, or any of her numerous annoying habits.  Jeff fired Dave2112 from his 7-year moderator position because Dave had gone out with Crystal Light, and when he broke it off with her, she went psychotic and lied to a bunch of people about how Dave had "mistreated" her.

DVNC
Just so it's known, I back MTPJeff's decision. There are exceptions on occasion, and that one's been proclaimed accepted in it's orig. thread. That this whole argument is being staged when the decision was already made is really disappointing.

"Just so it's known."  Very thoughtful of you, DVNC.  I'm sure everybody was on the edge of their seats just waiting for you to weigh in here.  So you're disappointed, are you?  Is that supposed to matter to me?  Because I have to tell you, it doesn't.  The argument was "being staged" because Jeff prematurely cut off the discussion without resolving the issue.  It was being staged because he was lying when he invited me to discuss it with him in private.  That a good enough reason for you?

Just so it's known, what I find disappointing is that you are defending a known liar and hypocrite who can't even follow the rules he expects of everybody outside his clique.  Maybe when you start caring about MY disappointment, I'll start caring about yours, "Brer."

DVNC
Gentlemen, I know you wish to state your views, but the moment you insulted MTPJeff, you crossed a line. It would be good to simply step away if you can't apologize for your behavior.

When somebody who is totally serious says something this absurd, you just can't help but shake your head and wonder.  Check this out.  The closest thing to an insult Jeff experienced was when jim66e criticized his actions as hypocritical.  He never called Jeff a hypocrite.  His criticism was specifically aimed at this particular decision to allow the cartoon to stay.

Jeff, on the other hand, called Jim a social retard and told him to "shut the fuck up."  Not only was it rude and threatening, it was an attack on Jim's personal character.  Yet that's apparently of no concern to DVNC, who insists it's Jeff who is owed an apology. 

drew70
Then I'm sure you'll agree that Jeff owes me an apology for saying...

MTP Jeff
You have to really be an unredeemable, unchanging asshole completely without any redeeming qualities at all to get banned from the TMF.

...knowing full well that he banned me for thirty-seven days earlier this year.

By the way. I've taken screen shots of this entire thread, so when it does get deleted, I'll post the entire conversation in my blog.

MTP Jeff

I don't apologize for that. I was specifically talking about you, you irredeemable, unrelenting, asshole. You've been trouble on this forum since the first day you joined it, and the fact that you don't want this to be about your behavior doesn't make it so.

Your method since day one has been to stalk anyone you don't like from thread to thread, harassing them with line-walking behavior, and you've been warned about it dozens of times, which has had zero result. Your banning this year was because nothing anyone says can stop you from being a troll online. When you disagree with someone, or dislike their presence, you follow them around the forum, walking the fine line of our rules to make their experience here as miserable as possible, and I've let you get away with it because of your long history in our community, and my respect for your contributions

There have been many calls to have you permanently banned from the forum, from moderators and members alike, and it's been me, over and over again, who has stuck up for you. There are MANY people who can attest to that fact, I am literally the only reason you haven't already been banned for your behavior here.

If any of those moderators or members had anything of substance to their cases, i.e. actual transgressions of TMF policies, then Jeff would have been right to listen to them.  He didn't act on them because he knew they had nothing on me.  Of course this was back when such things mattered to him.

MTP Jeff
And the really despicable thing is that I know for a fact that you know that, and you still stab me in the back, insult me to my face, and go out of your way to make things here as difficult as possible at every turn.

Check it out.  I'm supposed to be grateful for all the times Jeff DIDN'T ban me on the whimperings of every crybaby that lost an argument with me.  Have you noticed that on the one hand he blathers on about how extremely difficult it is to get banned, then he turns around and tells me he's the only reason I didn't get banned years ago on the basis of a few unsubstantiated complaints.  These two statements are irreconcilable.  

The truth is that Jeff made his own bed when he created an avenue by which chronic whiners can secretly complain about whoever they don't happen to like.  What was he thinking?!  Moreover, if he had brought me into some of these discussions, so that I could actually face my accusers, I could have taken a lot of heat off him.  But instead he's adopted this Lord-of-the-Flies system of justice in which the accused have no opportunity for defense, and are simply left to endure whatever summary judgement is agreed upon by Jeff and the plaintiff.

MTP Jeff
THAT is why this thread has provoked me. Because I know that the real reason you started it isn't that you care about that picture. It's because you love to find opportunities like this, to bust balls and make things as difficult as possible. You love to find seeming contradictions like this and make huge deals out of them.

On any other forum on the Internet you'd have been banned a long time ago, and the proof of what a miraculous exception to that sort of thing the TMF is that despite the fact that I feel this way, you're still here running your fucking mouth, deliberately trying to ruin things, and I'm letting you get away with it.

I've had and still have membership and participation in a bunch of forums over the years.  I've never had any of the problems at other forums that have plagued me at the TMF.   Perfect example would be Tickle Theater.  I've been a member there for six years.   I still post there.  I've not had one issue with the admins there.  They are awesome.  Other forums aren't moderated anywhere near as heavy-handedly as the TMF, nor are they run like a popularity contest.

The issue over Bella's posted cartoon of the Powerpuff girl in dominatrix attire (see previous entry) was still as yet unresolved.  Jeff forbade me to continue discussing it's legitimacy in Bella's thread, and he also refused to discuss it with me privately.

That left me but one option.  I started my own thread called Are images of underage cartoon characters now permitted on the TMF? in which I publically asked for an official TMF position.  Little did I know what a landmark thread that would become.  In the opening post, I recapped the situation, and added the following:

drew70
...So the issue is as yet unresolved. Since I was told not to continue the discussion in the thread in which the incident occurred, I'm asking the question here, as it's own topic.

Why is this picture allowed to remain when it violates the rules regarding the posting of underage characters?

Can the rest of us start posting similar pictures?

And please. Let's not turn this into a discussion of my behavior, okay? The topic of THIS thread is the cartoon in question. If you want to discuss my behavior, send me a PM and I'll gladly respond. FYI, unlike some, when I say I'll respond, I actually mean it.

MTP Jeff
One picture being allowed to slide because a judgement call was made, doesn't indicate a titanic shift in policy. The posted rules stand as written, and the exception stands as it is. End of story.

After some general sucking up from Viper and Slacker, a couple of others also began challenging Jeff for an explanation.  Jeff doesn't respond well to any challenge, but he performs exceptionally poorly in this thread, even for him.

jim66e
So an exception was made when a mod wanted to post a picture that clearly violated the rules of the forum. I wonder what would have happened if a non-mod had done the same. My guess is a certain select group of non moderators could have posted this with no problem.

While it is true that the TMF is a dictatorship not a democracy, this still surprises me. I used to hold the TMF up as an example of a forum with much better moderation than most others I visited. I won't be doing that again.

MTP Jeff ( post #8 )
This was the most trivial imaginable rule violation that caused exactly zero harm and was controversial to nobody. I decided on the fly to let it slide because it was completely non-adult in any way, the way we might allow a picture of a minor who was feeding an elephant a peanut. Because we're reasonable people who know what matters and what doesn't and don't have to act like robots when a decision needs to be made, and there's no reason anyone should care about that. Drew just likes to nitpick and create constant problems, because we won't let him run around and harass people that he disagrees with.

Jeff is very good at demanding that people stay on topic, but very bad in practicing what he preaches.  He's already trying to steer the conversation towards my behavior, as I knew he would.

ticklingnemesis
I understand exceptions for some things like your example of a child feeding an elephant a peanut.

As funny as I find that picture of the Power Puff girl, you still have a minor dressed as a dominatrix.

According to the rules:

Myriads
We don't allow posts that involve any form of images, clips, or story with a minor in them as a focus for tickling or other fetish behavior. Period. Any that we find will be removed. There will be zero tolerance on this issue. No exceptions.

MTP Jeff
Also by the way, it's already pretty established that in some contexts minors are allowed here, because we let people post pictures of themselves with their kids. We have to always make judgement calls, and this one wasn't even controversial, it's just one example of many of the ways drew70 patrols the forum looking for opportunities to harass people he doesn't like. He can't wait to nitpick a rule and say, hey, jump through hoops explaining this apparent contradiction.

In this thread, Jeff consistently refers to his decision as a "judgement call," which is completely inaccurate.  Judgement calls apply to issues that are questionable.  For example, an umpire has to make a judgement call when it's unclear if a player touched base before tagged with the ball.

This issue was completely beyond question.  Bella's cartoon fully met and exceeded the criterea for forbidden material.  It was by no means borderline.  Bella was like the runner who waltzed into home plate seven seconds after the catcher tagged it with the ball.  Jeff is like the umpire who declares her safe anyway because he's a fan of her team.  When fans of the opposing team complain, he says it was a "judgement call."

ticklingnemesis
So, how is it excusable?

MTP Jeff
It's excusable because it's a completely trivial decision. I made it in three seconds based on the fact that it doesn't matter at all. Nobody could possibly care or consider it harmful that this picture was posted. I'm sorry that it seems like an apparent contradiction, but in all seriousness, what does it matter?

Sure, Jeff.  "Nobody could possibly care."  Certainly not the artists that got their material removed from the art forums because they featured underaged cartoon characters.  And certainly nobody could possibly care about a kindergarten-age girl in an sexual fetish scenario.  No, nothing controversial there.

jim66e
I would say that since there are several people who agree that it is a rules violation your claim that no one cares is wrong. Unless of course, our opinions don't matter in considering who cares. What does it matter? Consistency and hypocrisy matter a great deal to certain people, less to others.

MTP Jeff
Hold on just a second. Watch who you call a hypocrite, that's a pretty goddamn offensive thing to say considering what a ridiculously trivial issue this is. I made a judgement call, and the fact that it's not the same call you'd make, doesn't make me a hypocrite.

Can you believe this is the same guy who brags about how patient and even-handed he is?  All it took was for Jim to mention the word hypocrisy, and Jeff completely dropped all semblance of civility, and raised his fists.  It gets much worse, but this in my opinion is the point in which the thread turned on a downward spiral, and Jeff was the one responsible for it.

jim66e
In post #8 you call it a rules violation. You chose to make an exception to the rules because in your judgment it was such a trivial violation.

Professing rules or standards then not upholding them is the definition of a hypocrite.

Is it a major life altering example of hypocrisy. No, not at all. But using your own admission that you recognized it as a rules violation but chose to allow it, it is hypocrisy.

MTP Jeff
As you proved in your earlier post with your insane babble about being "lawful," you're a social retard, and you really should shut the fuck up.

That said, I will now educate you on the difference between your role playing games, and reality. The real world, as opposed to your basement-dwelling fantasy world, is composed of shades of grey. I had to decide where on the color spectrum this particular post fell, and the decision that I made was one that you happen to think is a contradiction of some statement that you've chosen to interpret in a particular way, in a particular context.

You've got some real balls to think you're so worldly that on the strength of your interpretation of this situation, you can declare me a hypocrite.

jim66e
Wow, a bare knuckled attack on me, my living condition and my personal character. I'm honestly not sure how to respond. I could list how you misrepresented me, but what would that really accomplish. I could point out your crude vocab and foul language, but again I don't think that would really accomplish anything.

In fact I would say we are stuck. You appear to be too angry to think rationally, and too caught up in stereotypes to have a useful discussion. Therefore I will ignore your insults. I would attempt to proceed with a logical argument, but apparently we've moved beyond that into inflammatory insults.

MTP Jeff
That's right, we have, from the moment you called me a hypocrite, we moved from rational discussion to name-calling and accusations. If you don't like it, learn how to discuss things in a civilized manner.

Sorry Jeff.  You earned the title "hypocrite" when you knew there was a rules violation and decided to play favoritism and let it stand.  Not only are you a hypocrite, you're an ill-tempered conceited one.  You are so quick to soak up all the praise and ass-kissing, but the minute somebody raises a legitimate criticism you fall apart.  You're like a guy who has deficated in his pants, and then lashes out angrily at anybody who mentions the brown stains.

This thread I'm about to show you is one of the most ugly and blatant examples of favoritism in the entire history of the TMF.  A glaring violation of the posted rules of the forum, but because it's Bella Risa, a friend and a moderator, Jeff gives her a pass.

Up until this thread I'm about to show you, the TMF has had a very strict zero-tolerance policy on any fetish material involving minors.  While Jeff and Myriads can get away with making the rules vague with regards to interaction between forum members, they knew that strategy wouldn't work with regards to posting images of children.  Hence, they got very specific about what was not going to be allowed under any circumstances as well as the consequences for non-compliance.  Not only photographic images of minors were forbidden but even drawings and cartoons as well.

Many fans of art really wanted to see their favorite teenage anime babes tickled, and the artists wanted to comply.  So they got around the rules by "aging" the characters, either by telling a story that takes place in the future, or having some sorceror or shaman magically aging them. Sailor Moon would be a good example.

Jeff and Myriads discussed this with the TMF staff and they decided to use someone on staff who was close to the art community to lower the boom on aged cartoon characters.  This dubious honor fell to Dave2112.  And Dave dutifully posted a very elaborate sticky, which stated in very clear terms that even aged versions of cartoon characters that are already established as minors would not be acceptable.

This didn't go over well at all in the art community.  Over time they pretty much got used to the idea, but the initial enforcement of this "aging" rule was extremely difficult.

It's crucial to understand the above history with regards to posting images of minors to truly appreciate just how deplorable this thread was that Bella posted called Destroyin' Yur Childhud.  The Opening Post is simply a cartoon with no text other than that embedded within the jpeg image:  "With This Image I Destroy Many Childhoods"

The image is a cartoon depecting one of the Powerpuff Girls in dominatrix attire licking a riding crop.  Other than her fetish garb, the girl looks no different than she does on the Powerpuff Girls cartoon show.  Behind her you can see the Powerpuff Girls' arch nemesis, Mojo Jojo.  He's blindfolded and chained to the wall wearing men's briefs.

Even though this picture clearly violated TMF policy, it was initially met with schmoozing acceptance.  Then I entered the thread.

drew70
Aren't the Powerpuff girls in like...Kindergarten? Doesn't the TMF have strict "no minor" rules? Shouldn't a moderator be aware of these rules?

MTP Jeff
What I find interesting is that you are seeing this the exact, polar opposite of the way it should be percieved.

Instead of thinking, "Wow all of these moderators are wrong," you should be thinking "Since they all seem to think it's ok, it obviously is because, after all they're the ones in charge of knowing what's ok and what's not, so maybe I'm the stupid one here who isn't able to figure out something not that complicated."

Think again, Jeff.  It’s not only the moderators’ business to know “what’s ok and not,” it’s everybody’s business!  Every TMF member is responsible to familiarize himself with the forum rules and policy.  I’m not saying everybody does it, but to suggest that such a responsibility lies strictly within the domain of the moderators is absurd.

And aren't we getting just a little bit plural?  I never said anything about "all these moderators."  I'm talking about ONE moderator.  The one who posted that cartoon.

In short, Jeff is implying that whatever the moderators do is automatically okay.  If you see a moderator posting in a manner that seems even blatantly contrary to forum policy, you should just ignore it because moderators are above the law. 

Bella is so idiotically smug, she still at this point doesn’t understand how royally she screwed up.  Check out her response to Jeff.

BellaRisa
Thank you. She's an adult in the pic. It's fine. And it's funny

Sure, it's fine.  Because aged cartoon characters are okay, right?  Oops!  I made a mental note to respond to Bella, but first I decided to rub Jeff's nose in this pile of crap his dog left on the carpet.

drew70
Trust me Jeff. I'M not the one looking stupid right now.

This is quoted from a Sticky in the Art Forum by a man who was at that time a moderator.

Dave2112
Minors are not allowed on the TMF. In any way, shape or form. Period.

That's just one of many posts by TMF staff with regards to posting art depicting minors. The rules are quite clear that even "magically aged" minors are not permitted.

From Wikipedia
The Powerpuff Girls is an Emmy award-winning American animated television series about three little girls in kindergarten who have super powers.

The picture that Bella posted is in blatant violation of the posted rules. This is a fact which is beyond dispute. If you choose to overlook it because Bella is your friend, well that's your call.

BellaRisa
The characters are adults in the pic. No rules are being violated. But thank you for your concern 

drew70
"The characters are adults in the pic?"

May I ask on what you base this assumption? I mean she's not exactly sporting D-cups or an hourglass figure.

I see nothing in the picture to indicate she's an adult, and even if there was something, it wouldn't matter. Even "aged" cartoon characters are expressly forbidden.

You really should take some time and read the stickies in the Art Forum.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not offended by it, and I agree it's funny. But rules are rules, are they not?

Check this out.

Dave2112
I have heard the arguements/complaints that ageing minor characters is an inalienable right of free expression and that it doesn't hurt anyone. These arguements are not being dismissed, they are simply being disagreed with by the Administrators and Staff of this Forum. Here is why:

There is no way to enforce a No Minors rule, especially a Zero Tolerance one, if we allow this loophole to be exploited. We all agree that we do not want the TMF to become a place for pedophiles to go to see/read about kids getting tickled. However, if we take a 14-year-old character and allow him/her to be "aged" arbitrarily, we all know that people are still thinking of the character as they've become accustomed to them....a 14-year-old. The character has been drawn as a kid, been created as a kid and it's a very thin and weak stretch to just say "Oh, just imagine they're older." Now, we know that in the realms of fiction and artwork, there are no real people involved, but this is not the point and will not be debated. This is not the Supreme Court, this is a privately owned (and free to join) website with rules of its own that supercede people's rights of expression when those rights interfere with the overall mission of the site. We strive to allow people to express themselves however they want, but as in any civilised society, there must be limits.

MTP Jeff
If rules were rules you'd have been banned a long time ago, be glad that we're flexible enough to interpret things on a case by case basis.

Now I'm going to piss you off even more by declaring this off-topic discussion over. If you want to debate the policy with me you can do it by PM.

Riiight.  How dare I go “off-topic” by discussing the very cartoon that comprised the entirety of the original post!  That’s Jeff’s patented excuse whenever he throws his weight around.  He’ll declare whatever you're saying as “off-topic.”

I underlined the last sentence of Jeff’s post because it’s important.  He invited me to continue this discussion with him in PM, so I sent him a Private Message asking him how the hell he can reconcile this post with the posted rules of the forum.  His response was astounding.

MTP Jeff (privately to drew70)
I lied when I said that.  I have no interest in discussing this with you.

So there you have it.  Not only is Jeff a troll for girls half his age.  Not only is he an egotistical self-important Napoleonic thug, but he has now confirmed that he is an unabashed liar in addition to all that.

Last September, Skipadeedoodah posted a thread called m/m tickling - guys, is it gay?

M/M of course means male/male; one or more guys tickling another guy.  This is one of those topics that always comes up every year or so.  I posted my opinion on the subject, as did many.  Everything was cool until…

Euphoricy
*rolls eyes*

It's almost not even worth saying because I know it won't breach the thickness of your skulls, but I will anyway.

Men, if you believe that tickling another man threatens your masculinity in some way or another, or that it means you are homosexual, then clearly you aren't very secure in your sexuality. Period.

If I tickle a female friend, does that make me a lesbian? Uh, no. Der. Double standards are not attractive.

I have plenty of straight male friends who tickle *gasp*, egads! their other straight male friends. None of them are gay. Not a one. Then I have my gay male friends who tickle their other gay male friends. That doesn't even mean it's sexual. It just means that I have a bunch of male friends who like horseplay.

Sheesh. The ignorance and insecurity exhibited is overwhelming.

This is PC intolerance at its worst.  According to Euphoricy, if you even THINK that M/M tickling is homoerotic, you are ignorant.  I didn’t respond to this post.  But when the same narrow-minded sentiment was echoed by Bella Risa, I did respond.

BellaRisa
some of the most brutal, nonsexual pure-punishment tickling I've personally witnessed involved one poor sap being held down and worked over by a buch of other dudes who wanted to make him suffer in a humiliating way.

 

drew70
I've had male friends all my life. From grade school to the military to Corporate America. A very wide range of personalities and backgrounds. I've never seen or heard of anything like this. I'm here to tell you that is not ordinary, it's downright creepy.

 

BellaRisa
I have male friends who'll poke this one guy in the ribs every time they see him, especially at the bar in front of women, because of the weird-ass sound he makes

 

drew70
If they tried that at any of the bars I've been to, there would be a lot of broken fingers.

 

Euphoricy
I think it's perfectly fine and ordinary for a group of close friends to hold each other down and tickle each other. I have guy friends who have done just that. If it's okay for girls it's okay for guys.

 

drew70
Just because you've seen it doesn't make it fine, ordinary, or okay. And as unfair as it may seem to you, what's okay for girls is not necessarily okay for guys and vice versa. Men and women are equal in terms of worth and value. No gender supercedes the other. But there ARE differences, and not just biological ones. We dress differently. We greet each other differently, and there are different social expectations. I personally don't look at it as a bad thing. Viva la difference! 

 

Of course there are those who deliberately go against the societal norms, so yes, you're going to see some weirdness from time to time. The all male gang tickles would be a more extreme example of that.

 

Euphoricy
Some people are just narrow-minded.

drew70
LOL. Well that's a little on the nose, don't you think?

Hmm. It seems I have a choice. Agree with you or be labeled. Decisions decisions.

Now check out this post from Sleepy Jean, a woman.

Sleepy Jean
OK, let me weigh in (no pun intended). I think guys tickling guys is SOOOOOO gay. But I also think there is nothing wrong with being gay.

Even though Jean declares that guys tickling guys is extremely gay, she gets a pass from Euphoricy and Bella.  They don’t say a word to her.  Euphoricy continues her tyrade against me.

Euphoricy
Lawl. Silly, Drew.

Just because you don't find it "fine, ordinary, or okay" doesn't mean it isn't either.

 

drew70
That's true. But reverse the situation for a moment and imagine me not asking, but rather telling you what's normal for women and what isn't. Despite what you think you know, you're still looking in from the outside. That still doesn't make me right, it just means I'm in a better position than you to offer a more informed opinion on what kinds of behavior guys in general are likely to embrace.

 

Euphoricy
You seem to have an opinion on everything

 

drew70
I don't. It just seems that way because you and I seem to hit the same threads. As I recall, you've agreed with me on many of those threads.

 

Euphoricy
and you seem to believe you're always right.

 

drew70
If I always seem to believe I'm right it's because I don't argue points on which I know I'm wrong. Do you?

 

Euphoricy
Explain to me then, oh wise one, what makes it so very wrong and dirty?

 

drew70
I never said it was wrong. I never said it was dirty. I'm saying that straight guys gang tickling each other is unusual behavior, out of the ordinary. If it were as commonplace as Bella says it is, we'd all be seeing a lot more of it. Is it okay? Yes, in the sense that if all parties are agreeable to it, it certainly doesn't hurt anybody. But I would describe both scenarios Bella described as creepy since they both involved tickling that was clearly nonconsentual.

 

Euphoricy
Societal norms makes it not "okay"? So I suppose since the norms of society deem this forum and fetish odd and weird, it's not "fine, ordinary, or okay" either?

drew70
The difference is that we acknowledge that our interest is rare and different. We fully recognize that it is a departure from mainstream behavior. We know it's unusual and so we keep our interests on the down low. We're not trying to pass it off as "horseplay," because frankly, that just doesn't fly.

Fortunately, others also saw and pointed out Euphoricy’s hypocrisy.

Tomskee
What distresses me is the intolerance in some of the responses. It seems in the race to be the most PC, some folks have taken the tact of marginalizing, generalizing and outright insulting those who don't share their worldview. It is incongruent for those who express tolerance for different sexualities to then turn around and ridicule others who are legitimately uncomfortable. No one said m/m was bad or deviant. They used terms like "not my cup of tea" or "not for me." This was met with "narrow-minded" and "homophobic." I find these responses shameful and unbalanced.

 

Euphoricy
I personally have no problems with anyone who doesn't like m/m. It's a personal choice, and I'm not bashing those who don't "enjoy all aspects of tickling".

 

drew70
That's great. You support people selecting which aspects of tickling they find palatable. In that you are very open minded to your credit. But you display appalling intolerance for those who associate m/m tickling differently than you do. It's one thing to disagree but quite another to cast insults. I've had posts deleted and have been banned for less.

 

Euphoricy
What I consider narrow-minded are responses like drew70's who say that m/m tickling is unconventional and abnormal. What I consider narrow-minded are those who say m/m is most certainly homosexual, no matter the situation. What I consider narrow-minded is the viewpoint that m/m definitely has gay sexual undertones, but f/f more often than not doesn't.

 

drew70
I considerate it narrow-minded to label views with which one doesn't agree as "narrow-minded." It's like saying, "I will not tolerate any intolerance!"

The TMF, like most forums has its share of White Knights.  These are guys desperate for positive validation from the babes.  A White Knight will always take the side of the babe, no matter how absurd her position is.  Check out this sterling example.  

EcEu
is this how you would have a debate with Euphie in person?

 

drew70
No. You're right. I would handle it differently in person. I would have told her how I really feel about the things she's said. But this is the TMF, and a level of decorum is required.

 

EcEu
it really just seems like you're just tearing apart her opinions just to cause a stir

 

drew70
LOL. Did you even read the exchange between us? She came after me, pronounced me and anybody who agreed with me as "narrow-minded." What do you expect me to do? Apologize and agree with her because she's pretty? Sorry, pal. I don't operate that way. I like "Euphie" quite a bit but I'm not going to blow smoke up her ass. She gets enough of that already. (Take that any way you like.)

 

She was brutally honest with me. Why would I not return the courtesy?

 

EcEu
debating is no fun with you if you're just going to quote every sentence i write then break it down with your own condescending analysis, send me a PM with your skype information, i want to speak to you.

 

drew70
I don't subscribe to Skype. If I did, I'd be more than happy to talk to you. I do have a cell phone, and I have given out the number to people I know and trust.

 

But to be honest, I don't understand your aversion to forum debate. What's that all about? 

EcEu declined to answer.  Needless to say, I did not give out my cell phone number.

Believe it or not, this all started with me.  Now, some of you are no doubt thinking, “Suuure Drew, its all about you, man!”  I don’t blame you, because that’s exactly my first thought when somebody says such a thing.  But let me show you the sequence of events, and let you decide for yourselves. 

Three years ago about this time of year, I began experiencing unreasoning fears that there was a madman grinning at me just out of sight; and that sooner or later I would actually confront him.  In my minds eye, this madman looked like Shemp from the Three Stooges, as he appears in the opening credits, wide-eyed and grinning.  After a month or so, I posted a thread about it called Speaking of nightmares… in which to their credit, people actually gave concerned advice.  That thread was started July 1, 2006. 

Five days later, my father passed away from COPD (Cardio Obstructive Pulminary Disorder).  I even posted a thread about it that day called Some Sad News and Some Happy News.  It took me over a year to realize that the day my father died was also the exact time when my pathological fears subsided!  Somehow, my fear of my father’s impending death manifested itself in this very peculiar way.

Jump ahead a year, to the July 4^th weekend of 2007.  Jeff, MaxSpear, and a few others decided to play a prank on the forum, and me in particular, by putting images of Shemp all over.  They even changed Robace’s name to Shemp, even altering his signature picture caption.  By this time I was long over the fear, and I took the joke pretty well.  I hadn’t yet figured out the correlation between my pathology and my father’s death.

Jump ahead yet another year, to the July 4^th weekend of 2008, last summer.  Jeff and company decide to celebrate “Shemp Day” by pulling another prank, on a much larger scale.  They revamped the entire forum to make it all about Crystal Light, as it was around this time that Jeff was developing amorous longings for Crystal Light.  Jeff knew (as did we all by this time) that Crystal loves nothing more than attention, so he and his minions changed the entire forum from the TMF to the ACF.  The AnnieHall CrystalLight Forum.  Jeff didn't want to make it too obvious that he was sweet on Crystal, so he threw AnnieHall into the mix as well.

I’ll tell you what.  Jeff sure got an eye-opener once all was said and done.  He realized to his surprise and chagrin that few were as enamored with Crystal as he was.  Some people understandably reacted negatively, and when they posted that reaction, Jeff didn’t handle it very well.  In other words, he handled it the way one would expect him to.   Dalekfire posted a thread called A question for the Mods in which he and some others expressed frustration over the entire forum being centered around Crystal Light.

Oh, the outrage.  How dare anybody question the actions of MTP Jeff!  We owe him all our firstborns for giving us this clique-centered monument to Big Brother censorship he calls the TMF.  All of the cliquees naturally jumped all over Dalekfire and on anybody daring to agree with him.  Dalek left the TMF after that, never to return.  Who can blame him, when the forum owner and chief admin responds with,

MTP Jeff

"Waaaaah, someone did something fun that didn't include me! Waaaaah!"

Really good example for the senior forum admin to be setting, huh?  We have here a clear picture of Jeff's unwillingness to follow the rules he demands of anybody outside his clique.  It's also yet another example of his expectations of ass-kissing and his intolerance for criticism. 

Toward the end of the thread, my good friend Nostradamas pointed out that it was in questionable taste to celebrate a prank played on somebody who was experiencing fears over the impending death of his father.  He even pointed out the two threads that correlate the time, but was largely ignored as several mods and Venray proceeded to steer the entire thread off-topic with silly non-relavent pablum.  That’s Venray’s favorite tactic when a discussion starts to take a direction he doesn’t like.  He starts acting goofy, goading others as well, creating a tangent strong enough so that either the people will forget that uncomfortable topic, or the mods will close the thread.

As last summer gives way to fall, Jeff's pride over the TMF as well as his resentment of me both continue to escalate. So he starts this nakedly self-aggrandizing thread called Message Boards Vs Structured Forums:  How far have we come? knowing full well that I would respond with an unapproved point of view. 

MTP Jeff
I was talking recently about how I first encountered tickling online and it got me thinking about the old AMT days compared to today.

Thanks to the civilization of the Internet, and growth within all the different communities, we have managed to rise up from the mess and constant spamming of message board systems and onto more stable moderated Forums.

But it made me ask myself: other than the fact that they pioneered the idea of online communities, to some extent, was there really anything positive about them?

If you could, would you trade the spam and potential harassment for the freedom of speech that went with it?

Jeff knew full well that drew70 was the TMF's leading free speech advocate as well as a detractor of forum censorship. I knew he was baiting me to flame, so instead I posted my opinions without rancor:

drew70
Jeff, you knew I'd jump right into this, didn't you?

alt.multimedia.tk was sort of a novelty among the newsgroups in that its founder, Bob Hare spent a lot of time and effort keeping it clean of spam. For example, he deliberately omitted classifications like "binaries," "fetish," "sex," etc., as those were predominantly what spambots search out and infest.

But maintaining that Spam free environment was way more difficult on Usenet than it is on a VBulletin forum such as this one. Here, you can just delete. With Usenet, you had to involve the ISP's of the offending spammers.

As for moderated forums, like everything else, there is a tradeoff. On the upside, you keep away the spam and the "fuck you, asshole!" posts which almost nobody wants to see. Also you have a much brighter admosphere since nobody's permitted to insult.

The downside would be that people can't really vent the way they sometimes need to. For example, and this is strictly hypothetical - if somebody on a forum has elected herself the center of that forum's universe, nobody's permitted to call her out on it. Nobody's permitted to bring this fact out to light pubically, laugh at her, or bring her back down to earth. The only options are to either join in with those sucking up to her, or simply ignore the entire clique.

I personally feel that there should at least be one area on every internet forum where people can cut loose with how they really feel about those for whom they have no respect. Not an official recommendation or anything. Just being wistful.

Even though Jeff invited such opinions, you will shortly see that my response pissed him off, nonetheless.  Even though I stipulated that my example of a "center of the universe" attention whore was strictly hypothetical, he still responded as though I were referring to a specific forum member. I  don't deny that I had Crystal Light in mind.  If I'd named her specifically in my example, Jeff might have been justified in his response.  But I didn't do that.  I was careful to keep my example anonymous and hypothetical.  Still, Jeff hears what he wants to hear and nothing else.

MTP Jeff
I can't believe this needs explaining, but clearly it does.

First of all, cute, friendly girls get attention. I'm not just talking about the hypothetical one that you've chosen to fixate on in a really immature and disturbing way. I'm talking about all of the ones here who get special treatment, extra praise, and are more popular. If you really can't handle that, I don't know how you've made it this far in life.

Secondly, Myriads pointed out recently that ten years ago, every guy here would have sold their soul to have cute young girls actively participating at the level they are now. You're pretty much all alone on your island of resenting that.

And this idea that there's some clique that gets special treatment is bullshit and insulting. We run the TMF with a really remarkable degree of fairness. You won't find a more even-handed forum on the Internet. For example, I don't like you, and I wish you would go away. But I don't throw you out, even though I could.

The bottom line is that what we do is, we keep bullies from picking on people, and since you're a bully, you resent that.

Can you believe this hypocrit?  He asks for an opinion.  I give him one utilizing a hypothetical example, and he publically chastises me and threatens me.  In doing so, he totally derails his own topic and goes off on a character-maligning tangent, breaking his own rules.  He accuses me of fixating on a specific indivual in a disturbing way, but he has no qualms about fixating on me.  I never once on that forum espoused resentment to any girls for being cute and popular.  I maintained great friendships with Steph, Annie Hall, and several other attractive and popular women. 

Yes, Jeff.  Cute girls DO get more attention than homely ones.  Fair or not, it's a principal nearly everybody learns in Junior High School.  However, there's a huge difference between  resenting girls for being cute and popular vs. resenting ONE girl for going to the lengths to which Crystal Light goes to satisfy her overtly neurotic need for attention.  If YOU can't see that difference, Jeff, then I have to wonder how YOU made it so far in life.

What was so priceless is that right on the heels of Jeff's tyrade, Sandrock responded in agreement with me, much to Jeff's irritation.

Sandrock
I find myself in agreement with Drew.  Very well put sir.

Ooh, Jeff didn't like that.  No sir.  After all, the TMF is HIS forum.  Everybody (at least those that know what's good for them) is supposed to agree with him.

MTP Jeff
I would love to see evidence that anyone here is required to kiss anyone else's ass....

There's more to this response, but this one statement is the most blatantly hypocritical.  He demands evidence yet consistently refuses to offer any shred of it in support of his allegations against me.  The hilarious irony is that Jeff's reactions in this thread alone are all the evidence anybody needs to see. In subsequent threads that I'll cover in my next blog entries, you'll see overwhelming evidence of the ass-kissing requirements of the TMF.

drew70
LOL. Okay, Jeff. You want to hurl names, threats, and insults at me, have at it, pal. Hell, by this time I'm pretty much used to being your punching bag, anyway. And by doing so, you prove my point better than anything I can say.

MTP Jeff
When you stop treating other people like yours, I'll start caring whether you feel like mine.

What other people, Jeff?  I can point to numerous examples of people with whom you violated forum protocol with inappropriate name-calling, insults, and personal threats.  You've yet to provide any example of my so-called bag punching, because we both know there isn't any! 

heyoka (better known as Tkl-Duo Ann)
Drew, it really saddens me how you can be so blind as to complain about this when you yourself seem to relish using anyone you don't particularly like/agree with as your own punching bag.

With nearly 80,000 members here, of course there will be some with whom we don't get along. There are for me as well. But, why insist on the continued pissing contests to point them out? If you want them to get less attention, you might want to consider starting by giving them less attention. Wouldn't that make more sense?

This is the kind of crap I hated about the usenet groups and why I refused to join. I'm not so naive as to think everyone loves everyone here. They don't. But, at least we try to have a civil coexistence and not spew venom all over the place. Give it a rest!

I offered no response at the time.  Ann has been a long-time friend, and I really like her husband, who is also named Drew.  But if I had decided to respond, I would have said something like this:

Ann, you misunderstand.  I'm not complaining about being Jeff's punching bag.  On the contrary, when Jeff unleashes his venom on me, I take great delight that people are seeing his true colors.  His two-faced hypocrisy and Tourettes-syndrome etiquette were until recently carefully relegated to PM only.  If I'm to be the vehicle by which his true nature is exposed for all to see, I take that as a glorious honor. 

And no, I'm sorry.  What you say makes absolutely no sense to me.  You and the others are basically demanding I ignore the behavior of the people I don't like, yet here you are hammering on me for my behavior.  Why is it okay for you and several others to highlight behaviors and trends you find unpalatible, but when I do it, it's suddenly uncool?  You can't have it both ways, Ann.

Moreover, I find it absurd that you'd compare my behavior with Jeff's bullying, strong-arm aggression.  I don't have any special powers at my disposal.  I'm just a regular guy, on an even playing field with everybody else.  No upper hand, here.  Jeff on the other hand consistently uses his position and his admin capabilities to intimidate, threaten, bully, and browbeat.  The man is a thug, pure and simple.

Though the TMF is supposed to be a forum devoted to tickling, there is strong representation there by the BDSM community.  Some of the BDSM proponents insist that those of us who dig tickling are in what they call a "subset" of BDSM.  They say that if you like to tickle, you're a dom, and if you like to be tickled, you're a sub.

I get tired of the way BDSM is heralded as the be-all-end-all of relational experiences.  So I started a thread called BDSM Kills Yet Another in which I included an article I found about a woman who died during BDSM play:

A Quebec man may face criminal charges after a woman died while they were having sadomasochistic sex.

The 39-year-old woman died Saturday night in a home in Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville on Montreal's South Shore, police said.

She went into cardiac arrest while engaging in "out of the ordinary" sexual practices using "very particular" accessories, said Longueuil police agent Martin Simard.

When police arrived at the residence on Sommet-Trinité Street, the man was trying to resuscitate the woman, but she died, Simard said.

Police say they found torture devices in the homes, but would not give specifics.

The man was arrested and questioned but released without charge, police said.

Investigators are waiting for the autopsy report to determine if he'll be charged with criminal negligence causing death.

Check out some of these responses I got, and you'll start to get an insight to the cliquish mindset of the TMF.

BellaRisa
I don't see where it says that this couple was engaged in BDSM. I read that there were 'torture' devices in the homes of the couples, and that police think they were doing something 'unusual', but that doesn't automatically mean these people were BDSM players. This would seem to have nothing to do with the well educated and risk-aware BDSM practices supported and promoted on this forum.

Bella says she didn't see where the article said that the couple was engaged in BDSM.  Who can blame her.  After all, it was only in the opening sentence of the article:  "A Quebec man may face criminal charges after a woman died while they were having sadomasochistic sex."  I used to think that Redmage had the hugest ego of anybody on the TMF.  Bella's got him beat.  She considers herself the leading expert on all things BDSM and poly. 

DVNC
Aw, man...

Here I figured, you bein' a man my age, you'd have found somethin' that wasas you titled this.

BDSM didn't kill here. Hell, he ain't even bein' HELD. Canada ain't like the US, and I *DO* speak from experience, brer. He had a *sniff* of wrong-doin', they'd still have him locked down.

The very WORST part of this, man, is you spinnin' the DEATH OF A MAN'S PARTNER. Even if it were possible that they had no love for one another, he was found tryin' to resuscitate this play partner. Had they not had a consentual and safe scene, they'd be locked down. Canada don't play.

Damn, am I disappointed that you posted this. Personally disappointed. Ya broke no rule, man, but you just maligned a man who lost someone while slamming a group on this forum in which I'm a part. I play. I play safe and consensually, but I still play.

When my friends insult me, they apologize.

An apology, for posting an article that had literally nothing to do with you?  Sure, DVNC.  I'll get right on that.

Check it out.  DVNC was so offended that I posted an article that puts BDSM in a bad light, that he was unwilling to consider the possibility that the guy in the article might have accidently killed his partner through negligence.  His attitude is shared among many at the TMF.  It's really disturbing. 

I mean BDSM is all well and good, don't get me wrong. I know many cool people that play safely.  But to treat it as a religion to where it becomes a big part of your identity, and the focal point around which your life revolves, well that's going to take a toll on any hope for a healthy perspective.

Yes, it's been a while, but I've decided to continue the blog. There's a lot on which to catch up.

We'll start with what happened after my "30-day" ban last June-July. I quote it that way because after the 30 days were up, I still had no access into the discussion forums or private messages.

Another day goes by. Then two. Still no access.

Finally, a week goes by. It's clear I've been forgotten. Maybe I should just take the hint. Perhaps the forum be better off if I just disappeared?

Nahhh!

I created a new TMF identity drew7O in which the last character is the letter O, not the number zero. I then made this post in General Discussion:

To Jeff and Myriads

I'm generally not one to nitpick, but you guys told me I was banned for 30 days. This was back on June 15. That was the day I was locked out of the discussion forums. At that time, you made it clear that I wasn't to post under alternate identities. Even though I still maintain this action was unjustified, I nonetheless complied because I understand that it's your forum, and you don't need a reason or justification to ban anybody.

Here we are, 37 days later. My 30 days in the hole should have expired a week ago, yet I'm still locked out. Look, I don't want any trouble. I just want to know where I stand. If you plan on letting me back in, can you give me an idea of when that might be? Or, if you want me gone permanently, just say so and you'll never see me again.

PS: I apologize for sending this in the public forum, but as you both are aware, my Private Messages have been disabled.

Within an hour my access was restored. Nobody replied to that thread. No "oops, sorry Drew. We fucked up." For some reason it's important to the TMF admins that they at least appear infallible. I have no doubt that Jeff was thoroughly annoyed at me for publically announcing the ban, as well as his mishandling of it. Strangely enough, I felt no remorse at having done so.

So in essence, here is the corner into which Jeff and Myriads have painted themselves.  They've created a community that while on the surface seems benevolent and caring, but go a little deeper one sees clearly that the TMF admin operates by fear and intimidation.  They desperately want the TMF to be viewed by all as a cool place, but the people are afraid. 

As an example, Myriads has started a new thing in which he encourages (demands) that people entertain him by posting pictures of themselves in whatever scenario he dictates.  He even threatens that those who post in that thread without complying to his specifications will have their signature altered to say "I don't follow the rules."  This alteration can not be removed or changed by the member.  It'll be like having a "Kick me" sign embroidered on one's forehead.  

Fear and intimidation.  I would love to stand proudly and claim to have never wavered under such Geshtapo thuggish tactics, but I would be lying if I did so.  I've wasted undo amounts of time anguishing over how to say what I needed to say without breaking the rules.  I and my associates have heard from many people privately who absolutely loathe what's happened to the TMF over the last 6 months, but these people beg us to keep them anonymous.  They don't want to lose their privilege of downloading the video clips. 

As I approach the end of my 30 day ban from the TMF's discussion forums, I find myself like a man who comes back to what was once a nice home but has now become a garbage dump.  The ban kicked in 30 days ago today.  Will they remember to open the cage door?  Or have they already thrown away the key?

To create a "Flame Free" forum. This is either the most gutsy challenge one could undertake, or the most hopelessly foolish. Whatever the case, the TMF has nonetheless taken on this challenge with arguably some measure of success. But then again, someone else could argue that being flame free means to be completely devoid of flames, and that if there are flames present even in small degrees, a forum can't claim flame-free status. Perhaps that's true, but the closer one gets to that status, the degree of improvement increases accordingly - and so the TMF administration continues its vigilance.

How do they go about this? How do they communicate to its prospective members that flames will not be tolerated? Well, it started with basically a simple statement. No flames allowed here. But then there is the issue of definition. What IS a flame? It's basically slang terminology so it's going to mean different things to different people. When certain people were dinged for flaming, they argued that what they wrote wasn't flaming because they had their own preconceived notions of what flaming was.

So instead, Myriads tries a different tactic and implemented The Golden Rule. Outside of the TMF, following the golden rule simply means to "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you." Well some people (myself for example) welcome flames as an opportunity for retaliation and even competive sparring. For such people they could flame while still meeting the traditional golden rule requirements. Clearly some more definition was called for.

Perhaps they could define a flame as "anything that insults somebody"? Well, actually that won't work because some people are insulted simply by conflicting viewpoints on politics, religion, or even social interaction. For example, a black person might understandably be insulted over somebody defending Michael Richards' freedom of speech. To their credit, it was important to Jeff and Myriads that people ought to be able to give an opinion, even a contraversial one as long as that opinion wasn't directed specifically at another TMF member.

So along came the the new moderator catch phrase: Make your comments about the post, not the poster. That way you are attacking ideas instead of people. Unfortunately, if taken literally that would mean that we're not permitted to acknowlege other posters, even positively. Moreover, if you attack enough ideas from a specific person, they will notice and lodge a complaint.

Myriads ultimately discovered there is no quick and easy definition of "flame." No matter how many different ways he tried, there was always some other way to publically humiliate somebody. Still, he had to come up with something. Here are the two Golden Rule posts by Myriads in the TMF Rules and Announcements subforum.

The Golden Rule

If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all.

This doesn't mean that people can't disagree with other people, but it does mean that everyone who wishes to post here is required to go out of their way to make sure that they are being constructive and positive. We are a forum, a place for discussing ideas, and anything that doesn't contribute to the business of doing that is unproductive and unwelcome. Just because we have freedom of speech in the United States, doesn't mean that anyone can say anything they want while the Senate is in session.

The TMF requires a similar level of decorum from its users, and we are always in session. Intelligent disagreement and debate are encouraged and welcome. Simple negativity is not. For example, if you don't like a story, saying why is encouraged and welcome. Saying that it's "lame" is not.

And to get this out of the way in advance, yes there is censorship on the TMF. Posts that do not abide by the Golden Rule, in the opinion of the administrative staff of the TMF, will be removed and people who frequently make such posts will risk having their posting privileges revoked.

All forums need some form of administration. On a physical real world level, there is a server which requires maintenance from time to time. Software upgrades require downtime. There is the server's connection to the Internet that must be maintained and paid for on a regular basis. In the virtual realm, somebody has to decide what kind of structure and format the forum will adopt. A forum should also have a mission statement of some kind. Something that tells people what the forum's purpose is about, so that they can have a pretty good idea of whether or not it's something that might interest them.

On all of the above levels, I can honestly say the TMF is a topnotch forum. They can pretty much overcome any technical speedbump that comes their way. It is very well layed out. It's mission is clear. They've got good support from vendors and marketers. Most important of all, they have strong community support in the way of interested members. No other tickling forum on the Internet has such a following. Jeff and Myriads have a lot of which to be proud.

But now we come to the most difficult area of forum administration. Moderating. The deleting of posts, threads, and in some cases, members. How much moderation is necessary, if any? At what point does it become too much? By what process are the decisions made to take action? These are questions to which people have a wide variety of opinions. The opinions represented here are of course mine, on which anybody can feel free to comment, whether in agreement or disagreement.

I used to believe, and have said in the past that forums should all be completely unmoderated. I have since revised my thinking on this matter, as I've come to realize that some level of moderation is necessary. The Law of Entropy basically says that anything left totally to itself and not interfered with will ultimately deteriorate into chaos. To achieve and maintain a level of order, some control must be exercised. Otherwise, a forum will be overrun with spam, graffiti, and a lot of meaningless nonsense. Any of these things can derail a good discussion.

But what about so-called "flames"? At its inception, the TMF was heralded as "The Flame Free Forum" and the slogan still adorns the front door. But what constitutes a "flame"? Sure, there are clear cut examples like "fuck you asshole," etc. But what about a post that doesn't employ such easily identified profanity and name-calling but is instead carefully crafted to send a message while still conforming to acceptable discourse? Can such a post still be considered a flame? If so, how do administrators of a so-called flame-free forum make such posts illegal? How can they prove the intent? Do they even need to?

More to follow...